Alliance

[Vrenir]

I am not a modder, but I am a great admirer of TES, of mods, and of the creative energies that fuel them. For the last two years, I have been a ?skulker? in the forums of TES, Planet Elderscrolls, TR, and Silgrad, and though time and lack of expertise have prevented me from participating actively, I have made several observations, and as the new Oblivion projects commence, I would like to make a few suggestions.

First, on the Silgrad site alone, there are supposedly four separate but interlinked mods (ST, Blacklight, Velothi Mountains, and Vvardenfell). All of these are already tied together via the forums and supposedly have agreed to share their library of models. I think that?s a wonderful step in the right direction, but as I read the mods? individual forums, I see a distinct lack of coordination that I fear will prevent them from being compatible in the long run. This can be shown most obviously in the ?main quest? threads, where both ST and Vvardenfell center on house conflicts in completely separate areas. If there is to be a House War or any other province-wide plotline, there must be coordination between the mods that are contained within the province. I do not propose simply a monolithic structure as TR uses, but simply a forum where the top members of each subgroup can discuss and agree on the ramifications of their regional plotlines. If this is not feasible, I would strongly encourage the modders to please consider restricting themselves to regional stories if only for the sake of the larger community.

Secondly, in keeping with the idea of coordination, I suggest the formation of a general Oblivion modding alliance, sort of a forum for all groups attempting to mod in large projects outside of Cyrodill. That way, if a scale shift is deemed necessary, all major groups can agree on a mutually-compatible way of adapting (resizing Cyrodill or whatever the case may be). Also, models could easily be shared between mods according to need, or even produced for all communities by a central group. Imagine, you decide to put a visiting Redguard envoy in Silgrad and need armor, but thankfully TR already has asked for some produced, so you simply download it from the common library! Additionally as a result, when mods are released, the texture tags etc would be universal, meaning less clutter within file folders. An alliance would also make it easier to track projects, to see in a single place what is being done and how they ought to connect on the map. Assuming that the basic mods intended do reach completion, such a site as I am proposing would also facilitate additional, over-arching modding in a way that I have never seen for TESIII.

I realize that there are conflicting visions within the large TES modding community, and there may even be doubling up on projects, but I still believe that all would benefit from a common base of shared resources and emotional support. I would encourage you, as someone who hopes to enjoy your work to the fullest, to take the steps in these matters now, before the projects get too far underway. That way, we can all reap the rewards in the coming years. Thank you.

(This has been posted on the Silgrad Tower forums, the TR forums, and the Planet Elderscrolls forum.)

[KuKulzA]

I appreciate you bringing up this issue, and as you can see, these affiliated mods are going in that direction...

to clarify a few things:
1. the potential Great House War is on Vvardenfell, sparked by events on Vvardenfell, and is of Vvardenfell folks calling upon mainland allies for support in their local war; though quite large.
2. in Silgrad Tower and affiliated mods, as far as I know, there is no formal collaboration attempt. However, there is a general will to make these mods connect seemlessly and even become a super-mod in the sense that there will even be quests on each others mods, making Morrowind seem all the more together.

your suggestion of a large TES4 database... is ... to say the least ambitious...
an empire that is too large will fall apart... and a service too large will too... the strength of this modding community is our encouraging atmosphere, our freedom to focus on our own mods and still collaborate as much or as little as we want, and our ambitions checked by reality. Though we are all serparate mods, we all help each other out with sharing of things and ideas and also advice.

I have a few questions... can you clarify your vision of this pan-modder database?
1- is this intended to cover all mods or just this community?
2- do you have a suggestion for the silgrad affiliated mods pertaining to coordination?*
*to be truthful, we are just beginning to formulate main quest ideas and so in that respect, do not expect immediate collaboration...



I respect you for your ambition, and your concern... but I personally think that a pan-TES4 modder library/database is too epic... perhaps Silgrad Tower and affiliated mods can make a similar thing of their own for this community... but I think your idea is too big
a very intriguing idea though, and if it works, so much the better!

[batman]

honestly, i think that we have a similar system at the moment in miniature here at silgrad, we share all resources that are created, we are affiliated through the site and forums, and strive to create the best balance of mod compatibility and distinct separeteness.

and as for the pan-TESIV alliance, i'm in agreement with kukluza, that is more than likely too ambitious to happen, however i would argue for directing any modders you run into on other sites (espescially if they're doing morrowind stuff) to come here and join one of the silgrad projects. :yes:

only time will tell...

[noremorse]

First, I'd like to welcome you to the Silgrad community. :yes:

A very similar system was being developed by Razorwing a while ago. I don't know how far he got with it, or if it's still a continued project. It's called Morel, but the website hasn't been updated in a while. RW will probably elaborate more once he reads this.

Once again, welcome! Don't be afraid to lay down any ideas.

[Quentin Fortune]

Hello Vrenir,

and a hearty welcome to Silgrad Tower.

First some clarifications: basically we're speaking of two projects here, the Silgrad Tower/Velothi Mountains/Blacklight consortium (in lack of a better name) and the Vvardenfell project.

The goal of the first team is to recreate our mod we made for Morrowind (the game also known as TES III) in TES IV and which we worked on for three years while the latter one is recreating Vvardenfell (and maybe some other places) with the new power Oblivion will provide us modders with. (sorry for simplifications)

Since both projects have in common that they're focusing on the province of Morrowind and so we decided that a - more or less - loose affiliation would benefit both mods.

The interaction and communication between ST, VM and BL has always been very tight and the reason that it looks like we're speaking of three different 'projects' is the fact that each one has a history of its own before we decided to combine our efforts and that each and everyone of it is so huge that it would make sense to divide it for better handling.

So much for history.

Unfortunately I have to get to work now, so I have to ask you for patience before I add my two septims to your proposal.

Have a good time here

Greetings

Quentin

[Vrenir]

Yeah, my main thought was to save everyone headaches in the long run. As I said, I think the people here at Silgrad (and affiliates) are doing a great job already. Honestly, I didn't really think that it would be possible to have a single shared database (not so much an "empire" as a "coolitian"), but you know, if nobody suggests it, there isn't a chance. So anyway, that's my elaboration; keep up the good work.

[Razorwing]

Vrenir:
Tying in with what Quentin Fortune said so eloquently, another reason for the division has to do with differing leadership and responsibility. Rodan has a special responsibility for the norther region around Blacklight and Cormaris View, and Ben Vagara has, or is supposed to have, a responsibility for an area south of the traditional borders of Silgrad Tower. At the same time both Rodan and Ben are core members of the Silgrad Tower team, having had a long history of involvement in our team, together with the other core members (like me, Quentin, noremorse and a few others). So they have as much say as any other core member about the development of Silgrad Tower, both as a whole and as the middle region of the proposed landmass.

Vvardenfell is different in that respect, and I have no opinion on their main quest or other development ideas. Cooperation on the fundamental issues is important, but in my opinion too much cooperation would inevitably lead to disagreements and strife. I wouldn't like the idea of heavily bending a theoretical main quest for Silgrad Tower to fit better with Vvardenfell's ideas, and I'm sure they share those sentiments... so, best to leave that alone I think. That's not to say we don't share opinions and feedback with each other, which is a good thing I think.

Your idea of a modding alliance is certainly ambitious and I'm sure it could have some positive side-effects for players. Thing is. I don't really see the benefits for our team to get involved in something like that on a large, general scale.
? Cooperating with mod efforts related to us - sure. For instance a while ago I talked with the guy behind the Fallaran mod, which he wants to rebuild on Oblivion. Fallaran is meant to be an island in the Inner Sea, between Vvardenfell and the mainland, and we talked a bit about how the mods could be somewhat integrated to allow players to experience the mods together, in a fluid manner. I think he wants to mod it in its own worldspace, so there's no risk of conflicts or anything like that, but it would be cool to have a separate travel mod between our mod and his. We'll see what happens.
? But personally I don't see the point of our team cooperating with mods that have nothing to do with us. If a modder on our team wants to bring in a model from somewhere else he could just ask the creator for permission (and run it by us), as we did in the past. If someone from the outside is interested in our models they are likewise free to ask us. And then there would be the problem of finding people who would agree to work selflessly on an alliance like you suggest with little or no benefit to themselves. But that's just my opinion.

Everyone should keep an eye open for talks about other Morrowind-related mod projects though, and steer them over here so we can talk about it.

On the model sharing side of things I fleshed out a similar idea in a little thing called Morel, which was an abbreviation for "Modders' Resource Library". It was mostly a mind excersize I did for fun one day when I was in town and waiting at the bus stop, thinking about how the turns and arrows of the work flow would look. I took it as far as I could before my enthusiasm for it vaned, so I closed it up and shifted my foces back to ST.

[horodnicdragos]

I completily don't agree with this. [...] Leave it how it is.[...]

Edited; QF 2006-02-08

I respect your opinions on this, but since it seems that we found a new line of communication between the two projects, based on mutual respect rather than antagonism, I won't tolerate any remark that is capable of opening old wounds instead of healing them.

Quentin

P.S.: Please keep in mind that I'm with this project for more than three years . I've heard it all, I've seen it all and nobody will be happier, if this so-called feud is over and done with once and for all than yours truly.

Edit: Ok.Sorrry. :poorme:

[KuKulzA]

yes... although all these mods are affiliated... in a sense it is more like...
Silgrad Tower / Blacklight / Velothi Mts. + Vvardenfell = Silgrad modding community

in a way, the Silgrad/Blacklihgt/Velothi Mts. are the older more experiened groups.. the native guys
and us Vvardenfell modders... we are the n'wah of this community... well, not n'wah, but we are new comers


I think as for major individually mod-oriented issues like main quest... we should all have our own main quests as long as they won't disrupt anothers, so if there was to be a Great House War... I cannot go into Silgrad Tower and put in a bunch of Indoril warriors killing everyone... that would be violating Silgrad's rights to make their own mod the way they want to....

but I think we all plan to be loosely affiliated, and certainly mod-wise seamlessly connected...
I think in time, our affiliation will grow as relationships deepen and people get to know each other more (like the old Silgrad and Blacklight, etc.).... or it could potentially turn out bad, people might start leaving their loose affiliation because of strife mentioned by Razorwing... negative I know... but that is similar with Tamriel Rebuilt's old issue....

[Arbiter]

Let us hope that our mods will bring us closer.