CLAIM: BM Cell Naming & Music Preparation

[Ibsen's Ghost]

It has been noted that, in order to effect changes to BM's music system, we will have to rename a lot of cells. We will need to revamp both our various 'wilderness' areas and our interiors. As yet, the details of the renaming are yet to be decided but here is the current plan:

1. All interior cells that begin with a number must now have the number removed.
   
2. After this, most interior cells begin with BM then the modders abbreviation and then the name of the interior name such as a settlement, dungeon or specialist interior e.g. BMIGGideon. The interior name must now come before the modders abbreviation e.g. BMGideonIG. However, in order to make things sleeker, it is recommended that the interior name be encoded with an abbreviation e.g. BMGidIG. The list of interior name cell types is given below.
   [/list=1]
   As yet, however, the system for identifying 'types of interior' must be ascertained in co-operation with our musician, Xaeaix. Below is the list of cell types as they stand. I will update this post following advice from the Xae and the team as the music system is developed.
   
   Please claim any established 'interior types' and any 'landscape types' and this will help us to facilitate the music system within BM and keep things organised. Once the patterns are established, I will post up clear instructions for anyone making use of the system here: Naming Codes .
   
   Cell Types..............................Cell Type Code
   
   Barsaebic Ruins...........................Bar (+first 3 letters of the name e.g. Xarphyrial = BMBarXar, followed by a 2-digit number to indicate the level of the ruin e.g. first floor = BMBarXar01)
   
   Castles.......................................Cas (+first 3 letters city name e.g. Gideon Castle = BMCasGid followed by a 2-digit number to indicate a separate section e.g. entrance hall = BMCasGid01)
   
   Caves........................................Cav (+first 3 letters of the name e.g. Frograt Barrow = BMCavFro, followed by a 2-digit number to indicate the level of the cave e.g. first floor = BMCavFro01)
   
   Dungeons&Crypts (split up??).......Dun (+first 3 letters of the name e.g. Stormhold Great Cistern = BMDunCis, followed by a 2-digit number to indicate the level of the dungeon e.g. first floor = BMDunCis01)
   
   FortRuins...................................For (+first 3 letters of the name e.g. Fort Carmine = BMForCar, followed by a 2-digit number to indicate the level of the ruin e.g. first floor = BMForCar01)
   
   Native's Homes...........................Nat (+first 3 letters of the settlement followed by a shortened version of the owner or shop name e.g. Blood-Talker's House in Kangumabog = BMNatKanBlood)
   
   Non-Native's Homes....................Non (+first 3 letters of the settlement followed by a shortened version of the owner or shop name e.g. Sotho Manor in Soulrest = BMNonSouSot)
   
   Inns...........................................Inn (+first 3 letters of the settlement followed by a shortened version of the name e.g. Strangers Inn in Chasepoint = BMInnChaStranger)
   
   Church (Imperialistic)..................Chu (+first 3 letters of the settlement e.g. Stormhold Cathedral = BMChuSto)
   
   Shrine / Shaman Hut (Natives).....Shr (+first 3 letters of the settlement e.g. Pholmolo Shaman Hut = BMShrPho)
   
   In other words, the interiors system goes like this:
   
   BM + (interior type) + (settlement, where applicable) + (abbreviated cell name) + (number of the interior's sub-section, where applicable) + (modder's abbreviation).
   
   An alternative is to put the modder's abbreviation directly after the interior type.
   
   QUESTIONS: First up, should we put the category of 'dungeons and crypts' together with 'fort ruins'? And can we use the music script to identify whether particular settlements fall under the category of 'native home' or 'non-native home' by listing those settlements in the script under each category?
   
   COMPLETED RENAMING: Gideon (Deeza).

[Koniption]

Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
It has been noted that, in order to effect changes to BM's music system, we will have to rename a lot of cells. We will need to revamp both our various 'wilderness' areas and our interiors. [snip...]

The "wilderness" cells don't need to be renamed, as long as they fall under a single "Region worldspace"....with OBSE, regions, as they are named in the CS, can be detected by Better Music System's scripting. Also, this means that all "regions" in Blackmarsh must not overlap with each other. Blackmarsh currently does not have any overlapping regions as set up in the CS - which is good! But things will need to remain that way for future regions that are created.

Otherwise, if two regions overlap, things can get complicated for BMS's region detection in its scripts, as in it might not be able to decide "which" region's music to assign for where the player is at, if the player is in the "overlap" area.

1. All interior cells that begin with a number must now have the number removed.
   
2. After this, most interior cells begin with BM then the modders abbreviation and then the name of the interior name such as a settlement, dungeon or specialist interior e.g. BMIGGideon. The interior name must now come before the modders abbreviation e.g. BMGideonIG. However, in order to make things sleeker, it is recommended that the interior name be encoded with an abbreviation e.g. BMIGGid. The list of interior name cell types is given below.
   [/list=1]

I think you meant, in the next to last sentence: BMGidIG

As yet, however, the system for identifying 'types of interior' must be ascertained in co-operation with our musician, Xaeaix. Below is the list of cell types as they stand. I will update this post following advice from the Xae and the team as the music system is developed.

Agreed. We don't want to push Xae too hard to force him to finish music he might feel is unecessary or that may be too much.

QUESTIONS: First up, should we put the category of 'dungeons and crypts' together with 'fort ruins'? And can we use the music script to identify whether particular settlements fall under the category of 'native home' or 'non-native home' by listing those settlements in the script under each category?

You can combine dungeons/crypts with "fort ruins", if you want.

Yes, you can detect "native" vs "non-native" homes for each settlement-

BM + (interior type) + (settlement, where applicable) + (abbreviated cell name) + (number of the interior's sub-section, where applicable) + (modder's abbreviation) ...:

Suppose, in Gideon, you have both natives and more imperialistic people (non-natives or natives who don't stick to their "roots")..

For native households in Gideon: "BMNatGid" + the other naming stuff
For nonnative households in Gideon: "BMNonGid" + other naming stuff

I could put "BMNatGid" in the script to call music for "natives that live specifically in Gideon"...and "BMNonGid" in the script for the more imperialistic households in Gideon.

You'd do this for each city..."BMNatSoul", etc

Alternatively, you can leave out the specific city part (like "Gid" or "Soul"), and just use the same music for all natives, and another music for all non-natives:

"BMNat"
"BMNon"

....however, I don't think you can have it both ways...if you try to detect natives in Gideon = "BMNatGid"..then decide you want to detect Natives in other minor settlements using plain "BMNat"...the script might try to assign "BMNat" music to Gideon natives' homes, since it has that exact same prefix of letters in it's own naming prefix.

A workaround would be to give all the minor settlements a short prefix as well, and just avoid the "BMNat" & "BMNon" versions:

"BMNatGlok" (Glok-chuba, spelling??)
Etc

I *can* put several "interior cell type names" ( ie "BMNatGid") on the same script line for detection of these areas. So you can assign the same music to one or more of these cells. I think the line length limit in scripts is something like 255 characters for each line...and "BMNatGid" is really short. So you can get away with a good deal of "interior cell type names".

The problem, is that you will have to make a dummy interior cell for each "interior cell type name" that you use. If you stick with "BMNat" and "BMNon" for all interior homes, you'd only need to make two dummy cells, each with one of those names. But if you go with specifying interiors by city as well, you'd have to make a dummy interior cell named for each of these cell type names:

"BMNatGid"
"BMNonGid"
"BMNatGlok" .....etc.

Koniption

[Ibsen's Ghost]

I was bound to make some sort of error with that first post. Thanks go to your eagles-eyes for spotting that one! I corrected it.

As for the native/non-native thing, I'd prefer to simplify it so that the likes of Pholmolo and Kangumabog are very much 'native' whilst the likes of RockGrove and Sloughpoint would be non-native. Even though Sloughpoint is heavily populated by Argonians, the style of the place would, I feel, suit the more Imperialised musical score. There are plenty of such settlements in the beta but there will be much more 'native'-style settlements beyond.

[Xae]

This sounds like a fully developed version of what I suggested quite a while ago (here).

Personally, I like the idea of having different interior music types. I have very fond memories of the inside music featured in King's Quest VIII. Not because I'd compose something similar for BM, but because it very nicely colours the interiors with a sadness that helps enhance the story.

Ideally, using Inns as an example, I'd like for the public music to fade out upon entry and then after x seconds (a random number between 5 and 20 or so) the Inn music starts playing (something slow and gentle). This maybe paired with some subtle background sfx. Glass clinging, cutlery sounds etc. Hell, maybe even something blatantly ominous for Gideon like the player just stepped inside a really seedy establishment. We could really help sell this effect if the barkeep spoke in a low almost whispery voice and had lines as though he might just be secretly contemplating murdering you.

Barkeep -"What'll it be? Live or die?"
Player -"...what?"
Barkeep -"(pause) *very low hmm*... The drink. Do you want weak or strong?"
Player -"Nothing for the moment."
Barkeep -"I see... ('see' spoken very slowly)"

Then when you step out the standard music fades in slowly.

I don't mind composing any music that will enhance the mood of the places the player will visit (barring any sudden changes to my life, of course). The score is already quite a bit longer than the vanilla one and it may well end up twice the length at this pace. Now, given that the worldbuilding is still taking place, if in a very advanced state at this point (hats off to all the CS workers!), and that there's still the questwriting, implementing and testing to go, I can keep contributing to the score continuously even if my attention is requested elsewhere, be it with Photoshop work or writing (have you looked over the story draft yet IG?).

Hence, I'm open to the idea of splitting up the dungeon types and composing a unique theme here and there. I also invite anyone to make suggestions for music. I'll decide what to compose at my own discretion but the process of composing is rewarding in itself and as such the amount of work I do isn't directly proportional to how taxing it is.

I hope that answers most general questions about my involvement. If not, just nudge me and I'll elaborate.

Now, when I look at the list IG posted in the OP, my first impressions are:

• Non-Native homes: These should be lumped into several categories: city, generic and non-generic. In other words, each city gets their own standard interior music and some interiors (in case there are any particular ones we'd like to embellish) get their very own theme, something short and iconic like Royalty (the castles music I published recently). There shouldn't always be music playing in the interiors, however.
  
• Native homes: For these I'd look into writing purely percussive tracks with scattered drum hits and various percussive elements. Not a rhythm or even necessarily rhythmical. Something more like the scattered drums in the beginning of Strangleweed, though more subtle and not as wet and metallic. Edit: As per Ibsen's request, I can split the native homes music into native and Imperial-native.
  
• Church (Imperial): I think Miserere Mei worked for this. I just need to change the cell type name from Shrine to Church.
  
• Shrine (Native): This one is a bit trickier than it's very Anglo-Saxon counterpart. A church is a church but native shrines can range wildly. I'll have to visit these places first.
  
• Inns: Already touched upon above. I'm guessing most inns will share the same music with a few exceptions. This depends on if there are any particular inns out there that could really use their own quality (like the Gideon ones, for instance).
  

Regarding the dungeon tracks, I'd plan out overlapping textures (in music, "timbre" is the characteristic sound of a single instrument and "texture" is the sound of two or more instruments played together). In other words, there'll be instrument set A which all tracks use and then each type will have its own instruments that no other type uses (this paired with differences in harmonic and melodic styles). If we were to split all the different cell types:

• Fort ruins: Rather obvious. Deep and dark brass flares paired with snare drums.
  
• Dungeons: I'm not sure how these differ from caves. Maybe these are the dungeons that are inside cities, like sewers, catacombs etc. Will need clarification on this.
  
• Crypts: Also rather obvious, given the theme of ghosts. Whispery vocals and choir, as well as some jarring elements to utilise the horror factor.
  
• Caves: Ambient air noises and extra reverb on solo instruments.
  
• Barsaebic Ruins: I'm not familiar with this type but I'll most likely search for a particular ethnic instrument to built the music around.
  

I'll need to visit some places and get a feel for all the different types before I can make any final decisions. All in due time.

Those are my first impressions. I'm sure we'll discuss this further.

[Koniption]

Originally posted by Xaeaix
[...snip...]There shouldn't always be music playing in the interiors, however.[...snip...]

With the way BMS scripting is done, music will be continually playing, with a new random track being played once the old track ends.

HOWEVER, the ini document that comes with BetterMusicSystem mod, is pre-set so that the pause between one track ending and one track beginning - that pause/silence is up to two minutes long. If you keep this setting in the ini the way it is, there should be sufficient silence in interiors most times, before a new track plays.

(Yup, you can change the value for the ini lines in question, to suit one's taste - there are several things in the ini you can alter to suite your taste, tbh, but there are some lines you must not change and these lines are marked with warnings, accordingly).

Besides, if the player doesn't want music played in certain interiors, they can simply remove the music tracks from the appropriate Blackmarsh-related music folders, and put a copy of BMS's "dummy.mp3" in those folders (so that BMS can at least detect some sort of track, to prevent error messages, I think - the dummy.mp3 is silent and actually doesn't play anything). A lot of BetterMusicSystem users would already know to do this, to their personal taste and benefit.

Koniption

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Much of what I say here depends on Xae's willingness to compose stuff along with the feasibility of having, not to say managing, a huge musical collection.

Regarding the regions, I would say that the best option would be to split them according to the way I have split the creatures, for example. That is to say, split them according to swamplands, woodlands, marshlands and jungle. We can then assemble the pieces Xae created for individual regions and pick from the selection of whichever category they fall under, thus randomising the music content.

I then worried about the transition between the regional musics because there are quite a few very small regions that are easily crossed and numerous areas where you might pass between several regions quite quickly. This, I figured, could potentially cause issues in terms of switching between tracks. Transitions need to be smooth and not 'choppy'.

@ Xae - I like the idea of what you plan for the interiors. It may be useful to have a set of sound effect items that we can place in-game. Being dirty-minded, I immediately considered a few options that could be placed outside closed rooms of the 'Serpentine Emmanuel'.

Due to their rarity, I would probably put dungeons, crypts and sewers together in one category. If overloading with music, I'd prefer to make sure that we consider the possibility of using music at quest stages rather than having a vast amount of location-specific stuff.

Btw, Barsaebic ruins are our own mossy ruins using the original Ayleid ruin tileset.

Oh, and the MQ document may be a long time in coming as yet. At the moment, RL work is pretty manic but I do stuff like landscaping to chill out. It's very simple and quite relaxing...like painting. Anything requiring application is a no-no on account of me doubling up the amount of time spent concentrating. It would screw with my head if I touched it as I'd feel I'm not getting a break at all...it'll get done though.

[Xae]

Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
@ Xae - I like the idea of what you plan for the interiors. It may be useful to have a set of sound effect items that we can place in-game. Being dirty-minded, I immediately considered a few options that could be placed outside closed rooms of the 'Serpentine Emmanuel'.

Then you'll get the honour of recording Argonian moaning. Here's a thought, let's have all the core members record their own version and we'll give each to a room in the brothel.

Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
Due to their rarity, I would probably put dungeons, crypts and sewers together in one category. If overloading with music, I'd prefer to make sure that we consider the possibility of using music at quest stages rather than having a vast amount of location-specific stuff.

If there aren't that many of said dungeons then I agree, we don't need to split them up. Maybe for the full mod.

I'm intrigued by quest-stage music. Open world games rarely have that and it's mostly exclusive to linear titles. It depends heavily on the moments in questlines that could warrant music. Boss fights are a given and I suppose there can be sufficiently dramatic conversations, among many other things. I'm thinking that we can use a combination of the previous and small 10 to 30-sec fanfares. Like the fanfare that only plays once upon leaving the vault in Fallout 3. These could be used to embellish locations, character deaths etc.

Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
Oh, and the MQ document may be a long time in coming as yet. At the moment, RL work is pretty manic but I do stuff like landscaping to chill out. It's very simple and quite relaxing...like painting. Anything requiring application is a no-no on account of me doubling up the amount of time spent concentrating. It would screw with my head if I touched it as I'd feel I'm not getting a break at all...it'll get done though.

That's fine, I don't want to burden you. Are you satisfied with what you have so far or do you want me to come up with some ideas of my own?

[Koniption]

Originally posted by Xaeaix
Then you'll get the honour of recording Argonian moaning. Here's a thought, let's have all the core members record their own version and we'll give each to a room in the brothel.

Ummm..wow, that's, um, well, *different* type of idea you got there Xae. lol

If there aren't that many of said dungeons then I agree, we don't need to split them up. Maybe for the full mod.

I'm intrigued by quest-stage music. Open world games rarely have that and it's mostly exclusive to linear titles. It depends heavily on the moments in questlines that could warrant music. Boss fights are a given and I suppose there can be sufficiently dramatic conversations, among many other things. I'm thinking that we can use a combination of the previous and small 10 to 30-sec fanfares. Like the fanfare that only plays once upon leaving the vault in Fallout 3. These could be used to embellish locations, character deaths etc.

I'm not quite sure how to make "quest" or "event' music kick in...at least not yet. It may or may not be possible. I think I might have asked Side777 a similar question, but I'd have to dig for the document. I'll have to think about how to implement it.

Koniption

[Ibsen's Ghost]

You don't want to hear the suggestions that I was going to make about the sounds for 'Serpentine Emmanuel', folks. I had to censor myself...

Concerning quest music, I know that Leo Gura did something like that with 'Lost Spires' and even ThePriest909, who was going to contribute to our quests at one point, was able to introduce bink videos at particular stages. Given that he was able to produce video cut-ins then I'd imagine the idea is indeed possible.

And yes, Xae. It would be nice to bring you in to our discussions on the questing. You've certainly proved your capabilities in the past and have a nice, dark overtone to many of your ideas that would be gratefully appreciated. You've earned your stripes there so I'd gladly welcome you into the inner sanctuary...

[Xae]

Ok, maybe instead of the moaning we could record the lines from The Lusty Argonian Maid and the player would hear those through one of the doors. And through another the player can hear the faint sound of Pull Shapes by the Pipettes (favourite song of the night).

Having videos in between the main quests would give a great episodic narrative to the story. I think it'd really overturn the lack of intimacy the story had in vanilla Oblivion. We'd also get to use a master voiceover for the mod to carry the player through the story (I'm looking at you Ibsen). I'd love to direct and score such videos.

Do you guys have these "inner sanctuary" talks on Skype/IM or is it sub rosa here on the forums?