Redoran Arena

[IAMTHEEMPEROR]

If I recall, wasn't an arena already modeled?

[Seniosh]

There is an arena model in the data files actually. Not sure if it's in the CS. Something else to consider is making the arena less biased. Whenever i fight in the arena of cyrodiil as a mage, i'm screwed. I dont' usually wear armor, i'm forced to wear some, my spell rating goes down to 60% and i basically have to kill someone twice as hard as usual. I suggest that there be arena robes, for the poor mages out there with no armor skills. Or you could just let them wear armor that they own, but i don't think i saw that suggested

[KuKulzA]

maybe robes enchanted with damage absorption?

[bob196045]

Originally posted by Seniosh
There is an arena model in the data files actually. Not sure if it's in the CS. Something else to consider is making the arena less biased. Whenever I fight in the arena of cyrodiil as a mage, i'm screwed. I dont' usually wear armor, i'm forced to wear some, my spell rating goes down to 60% and I basically have to kill someone twice as hard as usual. I suggest that there be arena robes, for the poor mages out there with no armor skills. Or you could just let them wear armor that they own, but I don't think I saw that suggested

It was implied

Thats basically the idea, let the player into the game with whatever they have, within reasonable limits, don't want to much unbalanced stuff

Also a suggestion for the arena itself would be to make it more like the gladiator arena, I don't know anything about the one in Cyrodiil but if its that type then thats good.

Also if theirs concern about uber weapons use, then have the player go in un-armed, and just have weapons racks across the walls, make most just standard non magical but place in a few "special" ones, and some that are trapped and just let the player go for it.

Bob

[WhiteWizard]

Originally posted by bob196045
Also a suggestion for the arena itself would be to make it more like the gladiator arena, I don't know anything about the one in Cyrodiil but if its that type then thats good.

History Lesson!
Contrary to popular belief, killings were not common in Ancient Roman Gladiator battles. They sometimes do occur, but it is chosen by the crowd; thumbs up meant live, thumbs down means execution. There were also three main types of gladiators. One was lightly armored with a long spear, one heavily armored with a shorter spear, and one with somewhere in between with a sword.

Just thought I would throw that in there.

[Razorwing]

bob196045: Yup, the arena in the Imperial City is clearly modelled after Roman arenas. It feels a bit like the one in the Gladiator movie I think, but much smaller. I'll try to get started on it sometime after the next public release. If I'm lucky someone's made concept art for it by then =) If not I'll try anyways but it'll probably not look as good as it could have.

I figured part of the fun would be that the player could keep all his loot on him (the kind of loot useful for NPC battle). The only exception I can think of that I would want from the usual array of loot is to not allow unique items, because you wouldn't want three guys wielding Sunder (to make an analogy from Morrowind). For custom armor, weapons and sundry trinkets they indeed have to be balanced, because there's no fun in fighting someone it's mathematically impossible for anyone to win over.

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black[/hr]

Any ideas on how the player would choose his opponent? My thoughts so far:

I model a a large billboard model with cavities, and in each cavity I mod in a token. When the player hovers the mouse over the tokens, the opponents name and level is displayed.

Somehow we should disable tokens based on the player's level so that the really weak opponents compared to the player can't be fought, because it just wouldn't make sense that an opponent would accept a deathmatch from someone he has no chance of winning over.

The player picks up the token he wants and then gives it to the blademaster. A script then initiates the fight - if the player gave token #12, then opponent #12 is set up in the arena.

Would something like that work, you think?

[Seniosh]

Hmm the token system would work fine, but if people are concerned about having the player's equipment be balanced, then wouldn't it just be easier to use the system from the original arena? Where they GIVE you armor that you have to wear. It ensures that the player doesn't win solely becaues of his equipment, but it still allows him to customize his weapon, shield, and helmet

Hmm another idea though is to limit the loot he has to within one armor class or weapons class of his opponents ie, if opponent has steel, you can wear iron, steel, or dwemer (within one armor class, get it?)
You could also wear fur, leather, or chainmail if ur a light armor person

Same goes for weapons. It'll assure that one guy isn't using iron while the other's killing with daedric.

No clue how to balance magick items though, prehaps measure against the magicka used in the enchantment? and then temporarily lower the level of your enchanted gear to be reasonable. This is especially important if someone's using OOO or anything else that adds a ton of items.

[bob196045]

I am unfamiliar with this token system, but it seems simple enough

The only way I can think of to completely ensure that a players character does not come in with super uber weapons and armor is to remove them.

But that requires work on the modders part to check everything

I'm sure a script could limit what gets in and not in

[Seniosh]

Well that's what the cyrodiil arena is- they give you a set of arena armor, and you have to wear that or else you are disqualified. The only thing you can choose is light or heavy arena armor, and you get to use your own shield, helmet, and weapon.

I think it works. Just please please please add a set of robes if you guys are going to do this. i hate being a spellcaster (in the arena)

[IAMTHEEMPEROR]

There were many types of Glatiators, all suited for a different purpose in the arena. Here is Wikipedia's list:

Andabatae: Fought with a helmet with no eyeholes and on horseback. They were called andabatae, from the Greek word ???????, ascensores, because they fought on horseback, or out of chariots.

Bestiarii: Not really a kind of gladiator, but a specially trained kind of fighter who fought against beasts, usually with spears.

Bustuarii: fought around the remains of a deceased person, as part of his funeral rightes.

Dimachaeri ("fighters with two swords or daggers" from the Greek "????????"="bearing two knives"): Little more than what their name suggests is known about this type of gladiator.

Equites ("knights"): In early depictions, these lightly-armed gladiators wear scale armour, a medium-sized round cavalry shield (parma equestris), and a brimmed helmet without a crest, but two decorative feathers. In imperial times, they sport an arm-guard (manica) on their right arm and sleeveless, belted tunics, in contrast to other gladiators who usually fought bare-chested, and no greaves. At least in Isidore of Seville's times, the equites rode white horses and opened a day's program of fights (Origines 18.53ff.). They started on horseback, but after they had thrown their lance (hasta), they dismounted and continued to fight on foot with their short sword (gladius).

Essedari ("war-chariot fighters"): The name of these fighters derives from the Latin word for a Celtic war-chariot, esseda. These chariots were still used by the Celts in Britain when Caesar tried to invade the island in 55 B.C. Essedarii appear as arena-fighters in many inscriptions after the first century A.D. Yet since no pictorial representations exist, we do not know anything about their equipment and manner of fighting.

Hoplomachi: ("armed fighters" from Greek "????????") Like the Thraces, these heavily armoured fighters may have developed out of the earlier Samnites. They wore quilted, trouser-like leg wrappings, maybe made from linen, a loincloth, a belt, a pair of long shin-guards or greaves, a manica (arm-guard) on the right arm, and a brimmed helmet, not unlike that of the Thraces, with a crescent-shaped crest that could be adorned with a plume of feathers on top and a single feather on each side. Equipped with a gladius and a very small, round shield made of one sheet of thick bronze (an example from Pompeii survives), they were paired with murmillones or Thraces.

Laquerarii ('lasso fighters"): These may be a kind of retiarius who tried to catch their adversaries with a lasso (laqueus) instead of a net.

Murmillones: Named after the stylized fish (Greek mormylos) on the crest of his helmet, a murmillo wore a manica (arm-guard), a loincloth and belt, a gaiter on his right leg, thick wrappings covering the tops of his feet, and a very short greave with an indentation for the padding at the top of the feet. Murmillones carried a gladius (40-50 cm long) and a tall, oblong shield in the legionary style. They were paired with Thraces, occasionally also with the similar hoplomachi.

Provocatores: This type of middle-weight fighter wore a loincloth, a belt, a long greave on the left leg, a manica on the lower right arm, and a visored helmet without brim or crest, but with a feather on each side. They were the only gladiators protected by a breastplate (cardiophylax) which is usually rectangular, later often crescent-shaped. They fought with a tall, rectangular shield and the gladius and were usually paired with another provocator.

Retiarii: Developed in the early Augustan era, the retiarius (net-fighter) carried a trident, a dagger, a net, and no helmet. Except for a loincloth, a manica on his left arm, and a metal shoulder-guard (galerus) above the manica, the retiarius fought naked and was always paired with a secutor.

Sagittarius- A fighter who used a bow and arrow.

Samnites: The Samnites, an early type of heavily-armed fighter that disappears in the early imperial period, point to the Campanian origins of gladiatorial contests because the Samnites were a powerful league of Italian tribes in the region of Campania south of Rome against which the Romans fought three major wars between 326 and 291 BC. A Samnis was armed with a long rectangular shield (scutum), a plumed helmet, a short sword, and probably a greave on his left leg.

Secutores: This kind of fighter, specifically developed to fight the retiarius, was a variant of the murmillo and wore the same armour and weapons, including the tall rectangular shield and the gladius. His helmet, however, covered the entire face with the exception of two small eye-holes in order to protect his face from the thin prongs of the trident of his opponent. The helmet was almost round and smooth so that the retiarius' net could not get a grip on it.

Thraces: The Thracians also wore the same protective armour as the hoplomachi and a similar helmet, except that theirs was distinguished by a stylized griffin on the protome or front of the crest (the griffin was the companion of the avenging goddess Nemesis). In contrast to the hoplomachi, Thraces were equipped with a small, rectangular (almost square) shield (parmula) and short sword (ca. 34 cm long) with a curved or bent blade (sicca). The Thraces may originally have been prisoners-of-war from Thrace. They commonly fought murmillones or hoplomachi.

There you go. Now, got to go to class.