Thoughts on breeding

[Eshenaleros]

something interesting occured to me while I was looking through the Argonian compendium that may be a bit interesting to include. to quote:

It is probable that Argonian females have a sex organ something akin to a vagina and males something like a penis. The evidence for this comes from three sources, all Imperial or Imperial related.

The first comes from an Imperial scholarly tome saying that offspring have resulted from mating between each of the following: men, mer, and beastmen. Argonians are specifically included in the Imperial classification of "beastmen".

From "Notes on Racial Phylogeny and Biology, Seventh Edition":

It is less clear whether the Argonians and Khajiit are interfertile with both humans and elves. Though there have been many reports throughout the Eras of children from these unions, ... there have been no well documented offspring. ... Argonians, like the dreugh, appear to be a semi-aquatic troglophile form of humans, though it is by no means clear whether the Argonians should be classified with dreugh, men, mer, or (in this author's opinion), certain tree-dwelling lizards in Black Marsh.

The second is from "Savant's Note On Vvardenfell" by Andilo Thelas and Llaalam Dredil:

Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another.

The third is the following passage involving Antiochus Septim, a man prone to whoring with beast races, and his bedmate.

From "The Wolf Queen of Solitude, Book Four" by Waughin Jarth, from the pen of the first century third era sage Montocai:

3E 99 The next morning, the storm reappeared in all its fury. The pelting on the walls and ceiling was agony to Antiochus, who was discovering that he no longer had his youthful immunity to a late night of hard drinking. He shoved hard against the Argonian wench sharing his bed.

with the first and second of those references, we can determine that there is a possibility of cross-breeds between argonians and other races. This strikes me as kind of cool, as we could have scaly yet human-looking guys running around, albeit rarely. Perhaps in the places where the argonians have begun to embrace Imperial culture they have a chance to begin breeding with the Imperials. it's not too far fetched, what with some people's odd tastes in sexuality. It's in places like these that these types of things can flourish.

however, there will always be those that reject this kind of interbreeding, whether it's argonians who hate the way imperials are taking their lands, or those imperials who believe the argonians to be little more than animals. Perhaps a man goes on a personal crusade, ridding the world of a few of these "Half-Breed Monstrosities"

[Deeza]

I think you were right the first time, this probably should go under lore. As to your idea though, I guess I never really thought about this issue....

Although I do all of sudden I do remember there was that one really creepy (human) character from Morrowind with a thing for lizards... Or was he just scripted to be obsessed with whatever the player was?

[Koniption]

I know there are many races from various mods, that blend the racial characteristics of all the Oblivion races within each other, and some even add new "pure" races based on lore (upon which even those are sometimes blended into the vanilla races, etc, etc)....so it's not impossible to add half-breeds and mixed races to a mod.

But your idea might make an interesting quest or more. We'd have to keep the mixed races rare though, like you said.

Koniption

[Ibsen's Ghost]

I moved the thread here. As Deeza mentioned, it would look best under 'lore'.

This was a topic that I briefly dealt with in the extra lines that I wrote for 'Lost Spires'. It was revealed that the character Aster Cei had a Khajiit bride and that Teav, an Argonian guildmate, had travelled with him to Elsweyr to help in the marriage ceremony. It didn't go into detail about the matter but it speculated on the possibilites of inter-breeding where, according to lore, the chances are very, very slim but not impossible.

In my recent announcement thread on the Bethesda forums, I chose to post up a pic of the 'Marsh Elves' using Capucine's mod: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16366 . We'd previously outlined a different model for the Marsh Elves (because they're supposed to be all dead) but I really like this race. The Hist might well have been responsible for somehow regenerating them....and they do indeed look like an elf/beast half-breed. Of course, I guess this race could be used not as Marsh Elves but as the actual result of inter-breeding (which could be cool)!

Btw, glad to see you got yourself a cool new avatar, Esh!

[Eshenaleros]

Thanks for the compliment, IG

Your right, the aquamer from Capucine's mod, if they didn't have quite so point ears (well, depending on the non-argonian parent) and such blatant gills, then they would look amazing as a cross-breed argonian/something.

I'd play it.

Of course, there can't really be many more than 1, 2, or maybe even 3 (stretching it) of these guys in the whole of Blackmarsh - the chances of getting one of them is going to have to be phenomenally low, at least according to lore. plus, they'd be centered around the imperial dominated areas of the marsh - well their non-argonian parents aren't going to be spending a lot of time underwater, huh?

I play dungeons and dragons a lot, and my character generally tend to be half-orcs, so I'll be able to whip up some convincing character personalities for these half-breeds if we decide to go with this. what do you think?

[Eshenaleros]

Here's three personalities and backstories, which I think should e the maximum for this race, at least as far as NPCs go. Needless to say, each of these characters think they are the only one of their kind.

Name: Esku-Keiss (Alvrick Egeld)
Gender: Male
Race: Half-Argonian/Imperial
Class Specialization: Combat
Appearance:
Esku-Keiss keeps his head shaved, and he keeps a knife on his person for that express purpose. The equipment he wears is fairly light stuff, like leather and chainmail looted from raided forts. His avoidance of wearing too much imperial made equipment means he generally goes naked from the waist up.

Personality:
Esku-Keiss is gruff and stubborn, haughty in the face of those he does not know well. He keeps his head shaved because hair is something imperials have, not argonians, and he wants to be as much like the People of the Root as possible. To him, it doesn't matter who a human is, imperials are evil. Calling him bitter is putting it mildly, and he's not afraid to show such feelings openly.

Background:
Esku-Keiss wasn't born with his name; he used to be Alvrick Egeld. Alvrick was raised in Gideon by his father and mother together. his father was a weaponsmith while he was still alive but died of disease when Alvrick was only a few years old, so he doesn't have much memory of him. this may contribute to his spite for Imperials, not having a definite influence from has father to show him that they aren't all bad.

Throughout his life Alvrick was the constant target of rudeness, unease, and outright biggotry. Who better to pick on than the ones who stands out? While he was a child and young teenager he was bullied into doing every humiliating act that bullies forced upon him. As soon as he had grown enough to survive on his own he ran out into the wilds of the marsh, leaving his mother behind to the humans she'd embraced. for three days he continued to stay in the middle of the marsh, aware that someone was following him, but unsure of who. It wasn't until he collapsed from exhaustion and hunger that he was picked up by the Argonians who'd been watching him.

When he woke up, he was too weak to move, but strong enough to talk. A shaman spoke to him about his involvement with the imperials, and the vehemence with which he hated them surprised even the warriors used to fighting the humans of the empire. because he was of the blood of the people of the root, he was allowed to participate in the naming ceremony the other children were taking part in, and was granted the name Esku-Keiss. He's since been training with the warriors in Guerilla warfare in order to help them drive back the Imperials.

Notes:
Depending on their race, a player interacting with Esku-Keiss is either going to be fairly neutral or violently hateful. he doesn't take kindly to what he considers trespassers in blackmarsh and is ready to use force to push them back

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Egwene Milliene
Gender: Female
Race: Half-Argonian/Breton
Class Specialization: Magic
Appearance:
Ewene would be considered attractive by most, if most considered a scaly breton attractive. Her pearly eyes shine wide with intelligence, and he white hair hangs long past her shoulders. A pair of glasses rests on her nose and she wears robes from the mages guild in Cyrodiil.

Personality:
outgoing and tolerant of all, Egwene is constantly reminded of her dual heritage by sneers and taunts, all of which she takes in stride. Her only Vice is reading, and her aloofness is the result of years of torment by those she works with. Despite her torments she will help anyone and everyone that it's need of it, whether they want it or not. When approached by someone new, she generally acts as unlikable as possible, as driving others away is generally easier letting herself open up just to be hurt again.

Background:
Egwene is the child of a rape during a raid during a raid by a restless tribe of argonians, and despite her half blood nature, her mother decided to keep the child that resulted. Her mother was extremely protective of Egwene throughout her childhood and still is whenever she's around her daughter, as she knows too well what kind of things people are capable of doing to one another. She runs the inn in Rockguard (choose another city or village if you don't like her being from Rockguard)

when she had become an adult by imperial standards, egwene set out to Cyrodiil and joined the Arcane university. she'd always had an obsession with what magic her mother had managed to do, and she quickly gained the recommendations needed to gain entrance, and is now comfortably sitting at the rank of Journeyman in the guild.

She came back to her home in blackmarsh and now lives as a bit of a hermit out in the marsh. she comes into town whenever she needs supplies for alchemy and experiments, but for the most part she is a recluse who's content to spend her days in solitude, away from those who would disturb her work, though she acts as a healer when asked by those in need.

Notes:
Egwene is a stark Contrast to Esku-Keiss. She embraces imperial culture in the form of the mages guild and is a kind hearted, accepting individual. she's also a skilled healer in her own right and stubborn as hell. she'd likely cosider anybody walking though her door (including the player) as just another perosn asking for some help. she'd aid them, then ask them to leave so she can get back on with her work, unless she needs something.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Name: Tellun
Gender: Male
Race: Half-Argonian/Imperial
Class Specialization: Combat
Appearance:
Brown hair hangs down around Tellun's face, and the hardened appearance of his face tells of his Nordic ancestry, despite being slightly warped in that way by his Reptilian nature. His eyes are black and speak of experience, and painfully it's obvious he's capable of using the sword on his back, and well.

Personality:
Tellun has had a lot of experience and it shows in the way he acts. He's a strong individual which comes from the long years he's spent training his body to perfection against the native creatures of blackmarsh. It seems like the only happiness he receives out of life is searching for either the bottom of a dungeon of a bottle of booze, likely a habit gotten from his nord-side parent.

Background:
Tellun is the result of a bit of "fun" had by a guard while his mother, then a slave, was transported to Vvardenfell in the hold of a ship. Nobody is entirely sure what happened, but the boat carrying her and several other argonian slaves crashed into the rocks around a small island, sinking the ship and giving those prisoners with the ability to breathe underwater enough time to pick the lock and escape. His mother swam the short distance back to Blackmarsh and arrived exhausted from her excursions in the sea, having narrowly escaped a nasty Dreugh that had been following her for a while.

upon arriving back, The Argonian woman discovered her pregnancy, attempting to stay away from any other people until the baby was carried to term. she had the child later that year, and named him Tellun because that was the name of the imperial guard who'd given her the child. the moment he was able to fend for himself, he was left alone, abandoned in the middle of Blackmarsh, with no Idea where to go.

He was in his mid teen years at that point, and entirely capable of defending himself against the monstrosities that threatened him from the swampy land. eventually he found that he could hole himself away in dungeons until the meat of the monster he'd slain ran out, and he's been living like that ever since.

Notes:
Tellun is made as the third option because he doesn't fit with the other two. Esku-Keiss embraces Argonian culture, Egwene embraces Imperial, while Tellun is meant to be a loner who prefers his own company exploring places that the villages and cities of humans or the clans of Argonians. He's an avdenturer, and this stands outside either circle.

If the player encounters him it will probably be in the bottom of a dungeon already cleared out, sitting in his camp. he won't be rude, but he will make it quite clear he doesn't want any company.








as a final bit of info, I'm not entirely sure if we should allow this as a player available race. No doubt it would be fine from a mechanics standpoint, but it might be immersion breaking to have the player as one of these creatures, as their responses would generally be written along the lines of the player being a full-blooded race. That said, Selection is a beautiful thing, and I'm sure many people would love the option of playing a half-breed like this (I know I would)

What do you guys think?

[Ibsen's Ghost]

It could be a useful addition to a quest somewhere if we don't go with the option of using Capucine's race as the Marsh Elves. Personally, I'm in favour of using them as Marsh Elves but I get the impression that their physical presence (beyond being just ghosts) would be disagreeable to some who would interpret the Barsaebic Ayleids (Marsh Elves) as being totally extinct.

We'd have to come to a decision on this and that would only be decided if this option became a reality in terms of fitting it appropriately into a questline. Funnily enough, it does kind of share a theme with Xaeaix's response to your other post here: ShadowScale Quest Line? . If you follow Xaeaix's idea of having an 'infection' and that 'infection' being humanity then perhaps some Shaman might have made use of this new plague to create this race. This would be achieved through 'Bhuru magic' (Argonian voodoo). However, they are likely to only be used towards the end of the questline after the initial horrors of the Argonian zombies have been played through.....like maybe some shamans believe the 'fiend' to be a missing link between the two races....we could then either claim that the experiments are relatively successful or go the other way and have Capucine's race turn against their Argonian creators. All the time, and despite whichever way you disposed the Argonian reaction towards this new race, the Shadowscales would be dead-set against such intentions and would have to try to eliminate them and their creators.....

[Eshenaleros]

*Mulls over*

...


I like it

[Koniption]

I liked the descriptions you gave the half-races, and how you gave background details on them about their past history and how they came to exist.

But Ibsen knows more lore than I do, so his idea is good too. Personally, I'd like to keep some of your ideas for the characters you mentioned, woven into what Ibsen described.

Koniption

[Ibsen's Ghost]

I just need to find time to get stuff written now. I've spent a whole day's worth of modding and still no spare time on the horizon....ho hum!