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+----- Thread: Left or right? Liberal or socialistic? (/Thread-Left-or-right-Liberal-or-socialistic)
- Alasdair - 11-25-2006
Exactly my point, there was a real revolution I never said there wasn't, but it never became true communism and instead became a dictatorship (under stalin)
- DarkAsmodeous - 11-25-2006
You list only one of TWO possobilities, you foget natural progression bythe will of the people through democracy, not only that you attack a system based on examples even you admit never got there, so it hasn't happened yet it may. And who are you to define human nature? Human nature is inherant to the times, need I cite cases of feral children to show just how addaptable we are?
- Psychotic - 11-25-2006
Lupus est homo homini.
"Man is a wolf to his fellow-man." - One man preys on another.
I think Mormacil was referring to the above mentioned aspect of human nature.
- DarkAsmodeous - 11-25-2006
A nature that may be inherant in man in the current state of the world, but the actions and feelings of man are dependant upon the scociety of the upbringing.
- Psychotic - 11-25-2006
Quote:Originally posted by DarkAsmodeousTrue as that is this is not just a state that is inherent in humans in recent centuries, but for the biggest part of our recorder history.
A nature that may be inherant in man in the current state of the world, but the actions and feelings of man are dependant upon the scociety of the upbringing.
One of the reasons why human history is so full of wars and conflict is this aspect of our nature.
Today this part of human nature is pronounced in the workings of some capitalist systems, though it has always been inherent in our nature.
- Alasdair - 11-25-2006
Quote:Originally posted by DarkAsmodeous
you foget natural progression bythe will of the people through democracy, not only that you attack a system based on examples even you admit never got there
I don't think a true communist state could come about through democracy, unless the communist party got enough seats or whatever to change the countries constitution and make itself the only party. Sure then you may have a 'communist' state, but it still isn't the communism Marx described. the workers are still exploited by the state instead of the companies, and select few people actually have power. remember the famous quote from George Orwells animal farm?
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
A great comment on the hypocrisy of communist states that wield absolute power themselves while claiming that all their citizens hold the power and are absolutely equal.
Unless of course you would wish to see anarchist communism implemented, but then what would stop those who want power from simply taking it unless of course everyone was systematically brainwashed into believing in communism? You can go on about 'human nature' all you want but nothing short of radical brain surgery is going to sate the human desire for power and wealth.
- DarkAsmodeous - 11-25-2006
I said democracy, I didn't say the forms we have now, you have a very narrow view here in that you hold out party system to be THE democratic system.
- Alasdair - 11-25-2006
well than give another example of a democratic system and make my 'narrow view' a bit wider
As far as I was a aware a democracy was any system where people can vote (usually for parties or individuals).
- DarkAsmodeous - 11-25-2006
I don't need to as you have already done so, but just because our implementation of democracy most likely will not lead to socialsim (and I don't believe that) does not mean others won't.
- Psychotic - 11-25-2006
Communism is not about getting seats in the parliament/senate/ruling body or winning on elections... at least that's not the main point. What is important is that every individual gains a high sense of responsibility and a high sense of the common goals of humanity. Communism can be defined as a democratic system actually. Everyone has the right to choose, but everyone agrees on what is best for society (on their own free will and sense of logic) so there are no disagreements and as everyone agrees on everything there is no pint in having a substantial system of governing. Everyone does their job, all know their duties and responsibilities, and every person knows that he is a part of a greater whole.
Of course everything I mentioned is far from reality today, but I certainly can't say it's impossible. Think of how a Roman slave (who was born into slavery) would react if someone was to tell him that at one time in the future all men would have the same rights and freedoms under the law... I'm sure a slave would have a hard time believing a claim of this kind. That's the thing really, communism is a possibility too far in our future for us to be able to predict it's workings clearly.
The only negative side of communism would be that it would be boring... with everyone agreeing on everything and all that.
