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+---- Thread: Dumac [Finished] (/Thread-Dumac-Finished)
- Seniosh - 08-01-2008
Hmm, yeah the objects per cell change drastically between revisions don't they? I'll try more rocks, but there is a limit to how many rocks you can possibly pump into one cell and have it look decent. maybe i'll take the trees back up a bit?
the Shrooms are uncooperative... to say the least, but i'll see what i can do. For some reason they don't generate on that many trees, but they generate in too large a quantity.
Also, for objects-per-cell, you've got to keep in mind that a large portion of each cell is going to be muck pools. That's why there's a large space around each cypress knee, I know i'll have to hand-place the muck pools, and i don't want to have to delete a bunch of objects to make room for them.
I'll do the rock sinking, see what i can do about landscape textures, and try to inch the objects/cell up a bit more.
Also - i do want my textures to be the same ones as the rest of the bitter coast, so i don't really see a reason to create another CS entry. If the textures used in the Bitter Coast, Latrys North/South, change, then the transitional region around Dumac should reflect that as well.
[edit] Just looked at my region in-game, and now there aren't enough trees. I keep bouncing between extremes
I'm going on vacation for a week, so i'll have to finish it when i get back. I think what we might have to do is accept a pre-set that's not quite perfect. The changes i'm making between versions are minuscule, and if i'd submitted a preset last week i'd already be done hand-tweaking the entire region. I want to be done with the region before the summer's out.
- TheImperialDragon - 08-02-2008
Quote:Originally posted by SenioshIf you think it's good as it is, don't bother. It's nice to have a higher number of objects so you know there's not too much undecorated landscape, but at the same time, the changes shouldn't affect the region's appearance as a whole.
Hmm, yeah the objects per cell change drastically between revisions don't they? I'll try more rocks, but there is a limit to how many rocks you can possibly pump into one cell and have it look decent. maybe i'll take the trees back up a bit?
...
Also, for objects-per-cell, you've got to keep in mind that a large portion of each cell is going to be muck pools. That's why there's a large space around each cypress knee, I know i'll have to hand-place the muck pools, and I don't want to have to delete a bunch of objects to make room for them.
Quote:Originally posted by SenioshI noticed that in the preset they generate around only certain types of trees. Maybe this has something to do with it?
the Shrooms are uncooperative... to say the least, but i'll see what I can do. For some reason they don't generate on that many trees, but they generate in too large a quantity.
Quote:Originally posted by SenioshUnfortunately, the textures used in the Bitter Coast Latrys North area are also used in Steadhelm. I'd rather each region used its own set of textures. If a texture change does happen, I'll make sure the change is reflected here as well.
Also - I do want my textures to be the same ones as the rest of the bitter coast, so I don't really see a reason to create another CS entry. If the textures used in the Bitter Coast, Latrys North/South, change, then the transitional region around Dumac should reflect that as well.
Quote:Originally posted by SenioshIt's only the second preset we've tried on the swamp landscape you're going to use and I did already say you could probably get away with leaving the objects-per-cell as it is
[edit] Just looked at my region in-game, and now there aren't enough trees. I keep bouncing between extremes
I'm going on vacation for a week, so i'll have to finish it when I get back. I think what we might have to do is accept a pre-set that's not quite perfect. The changes i'm making between versions are minuscule, and if i'd submitted a preset last week i'd already be done hand-tweaking the entire region. I want to be done with the region before the summer's out.
hrug:, but it should be ready after those other final changes. I know it's a tedious process, often with a lot of trial-and-error. You can set the tree and rock densities back to where they were, give the region an area, and all should be good for generation.
Train of thought - Seniosh - 11-19-2008
Well, over the many months, i'm afraid that i've quite forgotten what needs to be done next with the exterior of Dumac. From what i can tell, it looks like we got a preset into the ESM, but we never actually generated the landscape.
Additionally, the preset was made prior to some nice new models being added, along with an entirely new set of textures, which TID used in his bitter coast presets.
Landscaping is probably my weakest area of modding (and it is a VERY weak area), so what do others of the landscaping mindset think i should do here? I'm almost tempted to just extend TID's BC preset north and west until it takes care of the border regions completely. I just don't have any more time to tweak a preset, especially one that i'm not fully happy with, that doesn't have the latest textures and models.
Basically, i lost my train of thought in regards to landscaping, and i'd just like to get Dumac's landscape done ASAP, even if it means using everybody else's presets, and then having "Dumac" consist solely of the mountainous area, which will have a preset containing textures, along with a few hand-placed rocks.
Advice would be nice! I'm really more comfortable with quests, landscaping is a strange area for me.
RE: Train of thought - sandor - 11-19-2008
Quote:Originally posted by SenioshI am willing to generate the whole area.
Basically, I lost my train of thought in regards to landscaping, and i'd just like to get Dumac's landscape done ASAP, even if it means using everybody else's presets, and then having "Dumac" consist solely of the mountainous area, which will have a preset containing textures, along with a few hand-placed rocks.
Could you create the regions for the different presets?
Which presets do you want to use?
It also depends on TheImperialDragon's view and opinion.
Just let me know how to proceed.
- TheImperialDragon - 11-19-2008
I don't have a problem if you use my preset. Just a question though, how do you see the region being divided? Should it be just the southern cells being border cells for the Bitter Coast?
- Seniosh - 11-19-2008
Alright, here's my 1-minute, rough&dirty map of what the regions would look like. Red is Deepen Meadows, Blue is Steadhelm, and Yellow is Bitter Coast.
If you'd like, i'll make a much better map after poking around in the CS and looking at where the borders would fall more exactly.
The easiest (and probably best) way to do it would just be to use the presets for the Deepen Meadows, Steadhelm, and BC regions. The borders between the regions can be gone over by hand if necessary. The space in the middle, and the mountain can be a region containing mostly textures and hand-generated cells. I'll take care of the center, as it should be very easy, probably with very little in the way of objects, seeing as it is a mountain, inaccessable, and very hard to generate objects on.
Of course, if you guys have any ideas for the actual mountain region, i'd be happy to hear them.
- Ibsen's Ghost - 11-19-2008
Quote:Originally posted by Seniosh
Of course, if you guys have any ideas for the actual mountain region, i'd be happy to hear them.
Rocks would obviously be predominant. If you were to have trees then I would say that ones with a particularly long trunk would work best. And I'm no expert on Dwemer creations but I thought a smooth metallic-looking walkway might suit the outside...or better perhaps, a walkway with curved sides so as to allow ease of movement for the Centurion Spheres. If you were to have lamps then maybe a blue flame from a tall, thin aperture...a bit like a bunsen burner....but then I gather you were looking for environmental items.
In which case, wouldn't the Dwemer have mined most of that stuff out? Perhaps then, the rocks in this region would have steps cut into them, perhaps even inlaid with metal plates for some kind of storage or access. Of course, you'd need to model a lot of these suggestions so they may not be what you were looking for.
- Seniosh - 11-20-2008
I can see what you're saying, but i'm not talking about the inhabited region of the mountain - i'm talking about the exterior, on the top and sides that don't have dwemer stuff. It's a HUGE mountain, very steep, and not climbable by anything other than levitation. The problem is that rocks don't do auto-sinking particularly well when combined with rotations and extremely steep slopes (60 degrees & more), and it can look weird when the rocks stick out too much.
Also, i mapped out the regions and their coordinates, putting them on this map. The coordinates for the Steadhelm border (red) are as follows.
(42,-8)(46,-5)(46,-7)(51,-7)(51,-6)(59,-6)(59,-7)(54,-8)(54,-14)(43,-13)(end)
The Bitter Coast border (green) is as follows:
(55,-8)(61,-8)(61,-24)(58,-24)(58,-25)(28,-25)(28,-23)(40,-23)(41,-24)(47,-24)(49,-22)(51,-22)(53,-21)(55,-21)(57,-20)(57,-18)(55,-15)(end)
The Deepen Meadows border (blue) is the following:
(28,-22)(36,-22)(36,-21)(39,-21)(39,-14)(41,-13)(41,-8)(40,-8)(40,-10)(34,-10)(34,-12)(28,-12)(end)
That's the more precise map of where the regions are.
- sandor - 11-20-2008
For the Steadhelm area.
After discussing the current situation with TID we decided to change most of textures and replace these with BC textures or similar ones (WiP).
When I generated the area a lot of the custom assets weren't ready, so I used an OB preset (placeholder objects) and customized the textures. In a later stage I replaced the OB assets with our ST assets.
I could recreate the Steadhelm area for Dumac but that would take a lot of time (my main priority is the teaser mod).
I suggest we use the BC preset seeing the texture replacement for the Steadhelm area. Another alternative is the Deepen Meadows preset.
Or both the presets?
Please add the final sub areas to the region editor and send/post the esp.
I'll generate the areas asap. :check:
Do you know which textures you want to use for the mountain?
- TheImperialDragon - 11-20-2008
For the area between Steadhelm, Dumac, and Ashunor, how about you use some of the Ashunor Valley Mountain preset? See the area I outlined in yellow in the attached image. Originally the preset was supposed to extend beyond the river, but that didn't happen, mainly for reasons of simplicity. The rocky textures might need to be switched for Dumac ones, but that shouldn't be a problem.
I agree that stretching the Bitter Coast preset up to the Steadhelm region is a good way to resolve the Steadhelm preset situation. In the TES3 mod, the Bitter Coast extended north beyond Dumac.
As for the Deepen Meadows, I have no objections, except that you use the 'hills' preset and replace any rock textures with Dumac textures.