+- Silgrad Tower from the Ashes (https://www.silgradmodding.net/forum)
+-- Forum: Archived (closed boards) former hosted projects for Oblivion. (https://www.silgradmodding.net/forum/Forum-Archived-closed-boards-former-hosted-projects-for-Oblivion)
+--- Forum: TESIV: Black Marsh (https://www.silgradmodding.net/forum/Forum-TESIV-Black-Marsh)
+---- Forum: Lore (https://www.silgradmodding.net/forum/Forum-Lore--187)
+---- Thread: Faction Brainstorming Session 2 - Royal Court (/Thread-Faction-Brainstorming-Session-2-Royal-Court)
Pages:
1
2
Faction Brainstorming Session 2 - Royal Court - Deeza - 06-09-2009
From Kulkulza's original post. I have edited it in order to incorporate changes to lore that were made later:
Argonia before the Royal Court
The provincial style government in Black marsh began when the area was conquered by Reman II. When conquering the land, Reman realized that the excellent guerilla tactics of the Argonian peoples would destroy his forces. Thus he won over a few powerful chiefs to aid him in traversing Argonia and subduing local resistance. These turncoats were conquistadores of their own kind. Reman was later able to trick the confederacy of Argonians including Kothringi, other tribal men, and people of root to fight in the open. This resulted in the only true victory for Cyrodiil, and the only loss for Argonia, yet this battle was so decisive that Reman was able to lay claim to all of Black Marsh. At first the and was ruled by Imperial governors and two leaders, a Priest-King, and a Battle-Chief. The Battle-chief was often used as an tactical aid for the Emperor and the Priest-King mediating between Cyrodiil and the local Argonians. However this system broke down as corruption ensued and the Imperial Governors became local dictators... However, the disaster of the Khanaten Flu put an end to this first period of Imperial rule. Black Marsh reverted to its previous tribal state amid frequent inter-tribal squabbles and constant wars against Morrowind.
Origins of the Royal Court
When Tiber Septim arose, it was clear that Black Marsh would at some point be attacked, and a powerful clan of Argonians decided to use this to their advantage. After seeking the secret support of Cyrodiil, the clan collaborated with Tiber Septim's invasion, negotiating with tribes to accept Imperial presence and using subterfuge to force the surrender of those coastal cities that could not see things their way. Tiber was generous in his reward for their assistance, and allowed the clan to form a new regime subject to the Third Empire. The clan became a Royal Clan, and formed the Royal Court, and was given the freedom to choose the provincial bureaucracy (the Archeins) for itself. However, despite the name, no King of Black Marsh has been appointed, since the title of Priest King still exists, although today its holder carries little influence.
The Archeins thus became the governors of the land. However a dilemna developed, the Archeins had control of the trade and military in the young nation, and some had greater aspirations than mere governorship. Thus, the Royal Court developed a way to maintain control over the Archeins; assassination. The Dark Brotherhood and the Royal Clan collaborated to form the Shadowscales. The Royal Clan also incorporated into the Royal Court a Royal Agency to train spies and agents, as well as a special Royal Guard, and a 'Division of Salvaging Extinct Argonians' devoted to establishing the truth about all rumours of survivors of the Knahaten Flu. Their success is unknown but they are based on Crimson Island. So while the the Archein mantain control over all the cities aside from Helstrom and Lilmoth and the trade and military, the Royal Court controls the Archeins and also provides the naval protection for the Archein's lucrative trade fleets. They are also said to own a private army.
Current state of the Government
The rise of the government has some drawbacks. Though the Mages Guild flourished and a small middle-class and city-dwelling group emerged, the economic boost in the Marsh, though pathetic compared to most other Provinces, was only achieved due to ethically questionable land seizures and intense use of slavery. However currently, slavery has been outlawed, although in remoter areas outlawed in name only, and frequent trade with Elsweyr and Cyrodiil, both legal and (often times) illegal, has helped stabilize and promote the growth of the economy. The Legions, now mostly Argonian, are based in each city (aside from Helstrom) and counter the Archeins' military forces. Since the abandonment of Fort Swampmoth and the withdrawal of all combat troops to Cyrodiil, the Black Marsh Legion now has become more of a local police force and their gear reflects this. Use of the Shadowscales has decreased slightly as more loyal Archeins had arisen. However, the heavyhanded attempts at modernisation by the Archeins are still the cause of much resentment, and they are still known by the more educated commoners as Kleptocrats. Rulers who steal from their own people to maintain power.
Problems facing the Royal Court (Quest Fodder by any other name)
The remaining native contingents of the Imperial Legion in Black Marsh are disgusted at the level of favoritism in the government, and some dissatisfied elements are beginning to secretly plan a coup. Meanwhile, Dres refugees swarm into Thorn and some sail as far as Archon to get away from the political struggles of their land. Following their unsuccessful rebellion, the surviving Dres nobles have sided with Helseth and many of the old councilors were killed; many commoners and lesser nobles fled south hoping to practice their traditions and slavery away from the abolitionist and progressive young Dres nobility.
With the influx of hostile Dunmer, and the growing unrest in the Legion, the Royal Court is finding itself unprepared to deal with these issues. The government is struggling to avoid conflict but skirmishes with Imperial colonists on the coast have been reported and sporadic fighting has ignited in Arnesia along the Morrowind-Black Marsh border once more. The Naga banditry and guerilla activities in the north and west that had just so recently subsided have risen again. Many tribal argonians now no longer adhere to the Royal Court and the mysterious Council of the Root is gaining more influence after a long period of inactivity.
Origins of the Khanaten Liberation Army
One of the Royal Court's biggest mistake, the KLA started out as an elite force of powerful warriors recruited from all over Black Marsh to fight the Blackwood Company (given their support by some nobles in Cyrodiil, the Royal Court thought it would be best to deal with them unofficially). The force was a great success, but was disappointed by what it percieved to be a half-hearted effort by the Royal Court to repel the invaders. They fell under the influence of a charismatic Shaman, inciting them to mutiny and go underground to continue their fight against the Imperial presence, which rapidly came to include the Royal Court itself.
Popular perception of the Royal Court
Argonians are divided as to whether or not the Royal Court is a good thing. Typically, the deeper into the Marsh you go, the less influence it has. Helstrom and the villages surrounding it do not even acknowledge the Court's authority, let alone that of the Empire. Since the beginning, the Court have been viewed as collaborators with the Empire, and are a popular target for anything people see as going wrong in the province. However, people are divided as to whether this collaboration is a necessary evil, a smart move or a treacherous betrayal.
Lilmoth, model City
Lilmoth is the only city in Black Marsh under the direct control of the Royal Court, and they have tried their hardest to make it an example of their vision for the rest of their province. Lilmoth was once a group of small islands off the coast which served as the capital of the ancient Lilmothlit nation. However it has been massively extended by the construction of locks, levees and foundations, so that now most of the city rests on reclaimed land or platforms. The architecture is a bizarre mixture of traditional Argonian and foreign influences, which was meant to represent the Royal Court's vision for the province but turns out looking a bit mismatched in places. The city is dominated by the "mossy mansions" of the Royal Court, and the palace housing their administration. Instead of streets, there are waterways and canals.
- Ibsen's Ghost - 06-09-2009
Interesting! It was always difficult to wade through the many, scattered remnants of KuKulZa's ideas so I find this useful. However, I have a few problems that I'd like to discuss:
- At the moment, I have no plans for the KLA as a separate Faction in its own right. My thinking was that I could have some amongst the Ka'Pura reveal themselves as members of the KLA....kind of like extreme versions of the Ka'Pura. Or would you say that it should be the KLA that is labelled as a separate Faction and the Ka'Pura are merely a major tribe? I'm not keen on having multiple Factions at the moment purely from a management perspective.
- If the Royal Court hold no sway over Helstrom, where is their base? Lilmothlit? This seems a bit unusual to me and I'm not so sure about the identity of the Priest King. So I would like to add a rumour that the Priest King is now out of favour with the Hist and he patronises the temple but rarely turns up there on account of the foreboding omens that afflict him whenever he shows up in Helstrom. The conclusion is that BM lacks effective leadership and that the Argonians are losing touch with the Hist....a bit of a Holy Grail scenario.... =)
- Deeza - 06-09-2009
I agree, it's difficult to make sense of KuKulza's ideas sometimes. He was a prolific (and very talented) writer, and there's just so much it's hard to figure it all out.
To the best of my knowledge, the Ka'Pura were meant to be the one and only Argonian tribe that the player can join, due to exceptional circumstances, kind of like the Urshilaku Ashlanders in Morrowind, they were going to be the player's "gateway" to the Argonian tribal culture.
The KLA are completely separate as far as I know, though no doubt they have members in many tribes (your character Spits-Out-Seed from Phomolo is probably one, for example). I wouldn't worry about the number of factions myself, most of them can be "ambient", or non-playable, and the player interacts with them through quests for other groups.
To answer your other question, yes Lilmoth is definitely the base of the Royal Court. Helstrom is a bit of a mystery really. No army has ever conquered it, and it seems to be a kind of "lost city" that nobody ever mentions after the first Elder Scrolls game. It's even been suggested that formally it's not actually part of the Empire. This was how I got my idea that most people believe it's a myth. The Royal Court no doubt knows the truth but perhaps they have their own reasons for keeping it a secret.
As for your final comment, right on the money!
BM is a total mess, and there are so few Hist left that the Empire thinks they're actually extinct. We don't have to include the Priest King as a major character, but if we follow your suggestion about him having "lost favour" he could be quite interesting.
- Ibsen's Ghost - 06-10-2009
All good then. :yes:
I take your point about the Ka'Pura being a joinable tribe. I like the idea. I'm just thinking in terms of assigning weapons and armour and stuff but tbh the KLA would look identical to the tribes anyway. Nonetheless, I need to think about whether or not to include different Argonian race varieties such as Saurians and whether they will be set up as a tribe with separate racial meshes.
I like KK's ideas but I sometimes worry if he over-eggs the pudding, to use a quite bad expression. Some gamers appreciate simple storylines and I sometimes have to rein in some of my own writing to make it clear. For lore stuff like this though, you can't really avoid it.
- Deeza - 06-10-2009
I do see your point. People complain if the story is too simplistic (as in Oblivion) but also if it's too complex. I think a good balance to strike is that the backstory is all there for those who take the time to find it in conversations and books, but that you don't really need to know much of it in order to complete the quests and have fun.
- Ibsen's Ghost - 06-10-2009
:yes:
- jucklesjenk - 12-28-2009
Why not make the Archein Government base in Helstrom, the capital, whilst the Royal Family live in Lilmoth?
This fits in with the idea of the Archeins having more practical control than the Royal Family, so they live in the Capital.
Perhaps, at the end of the main quest (however that will go), one of the Archeins attempts a coup and the player helps the Royal Family by defending them from assassination in Lilmoth, leading their small group of loyal soldiers into battle on the streets of Helstrom and eventually killing the Archein in the Castle of Helstrom in an epic battle against him and his bodyguards (who would all be tough, to make it a challenge for the player). Then, the player's reward could be replacing that Archein and recieving all the bonuses that come with it.
- Ibsen's Ghost - 12-28-2009
An uprising sounds good to me. The idea is a little far ahead but it's worth taking note of. :yes:
- jucklesjenk - 12-28-2009
Actually, to make it twist a bit more, why don't we have the Archein secretly backing the rebels (y'know, those Khanatan guys). It is noticed that they seem to be better equipped than usual, with stronger tactics, and there are more and more casualties from their attacks. The MQ could be the player investigating what's happenening and finds little clues and perhaps there could a mission where the player has to capture a rebel general and take him to the Blackrose prison and interrogate him etc. and by the time it's clear that the Archein is responsible, he has already struck, and my above post comes into play.
- Ibsen's Ghost - 12-28-2009
Fits nicely with our intended theme of the governance of Argonia being in turmoil. :yes: