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+---- Thread: Elaborations about the Trader's Guild (/Thread-Elaborations-about-the-Trader-s-Guild)
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- KuKulzA - 02-13-2006
maybe this can be a three front war?
Cammona Tong, Hlaalu, and Trader's Guild?
I do believe there is a fishmongers and tanners "guild" in Vivec CIty... perhaps it is tied to the Trader's Guild?
maybe it will be a Guild but within is a semi-secret society that has secret trade routes and connections...
Cammona Tong has its finger on smuggling... and is the biggest and the baddest gang on Morrowind
Hlaalu has its finger on the big legal trades as well as tariffs on common merchants...
but maybe the Trader's Guild has a mixture of both?
...perhaps the Trader's Guild also has allies outside of Morrowind? maybe it developed with the coming of outlanders?
perhaps has a market with wealthy Khajit trade-princes in Elsweyr?
by the way, if you'd like to extend the Trader's Guild onto Vvardenfell, I am fine with it, their is a convenient "fake" guild called the Fishmongers and Tanners guild and some others in Vivec City.... so if you'd like to make them actually part of an overall Trader's Guild, I am fine with that.... plus, since they appear not to be a traditional guild but one that has risen up with the Imperial occupation, then I think Vivec City is a great base of operation on Vvardenfell, seeing as how the Trader's Guild has little influence on Vvardenfell... even less than the outlander Thieves Guild, and much less than the Cammona Tong
- raggidman - 02-13-2006
Quote: Originally posted by KuKulzA
maybe this can be a three front war?
Cammona Tong, Hlaalu, and Trader's Guild?
I do believe there is a fishmongers and tanners "guild" in Vivec CIty...
there were other guilds too in approximately the same location - might be that this could be usefully co-ordinated with the 'war being arranged in Vvardenfell (not suggesting direct links necessary, just awareness of where history might usefully converge and diversify.)
Quote:perhaps it is tied to the Trader's Guild?
Well, in Vivec it did seem that the 'guilds' were all staffed by dunmer - so they could even have been Commona - linked, even though they seemed friendly enough. Must visit Vivec this evening and search for them - it is important whether they are in the Foreign quarter, St Olms or whatever.
Quote:maybe it will be a Guild but within is a semi-secret society that has secret trade routes and connections...
I actually prefer that it be an entirely new semi-secret society if that is what it is...TRY THIS: it could be that remnants of the Velothi movement, who were not happy with the Tribunal, are now coming out into the open...? If so, it would have spies/links with all the major dunmer factions...
Quote:Cammona Tong has its finger on smuggling... and is the biggest and the baddest gang on Morrowind
Hlaalu has its finger on the big legal trades as well as tariffs on common merchants...
but maybe the Trader's Guild has a mixture of both?
If you remember the 'history primer' that Caius gives you when you first agree to help him - you might note that it describes the dunmer as exiles from Summerset Isle - so you might see them as rebels - and probably more outward-looking than the Commona...certainly more patient and willing to work steadily and w/out recognition for their own ends - a far more secret sect by far...
Quote:...perhaps the Trader's Guild also has allies outside of Morrowind? maybe it developed with the coming of outlanders?
perhaps has a market with wealthy khajiit trade-princes in Elsweyr?
If these are the remnants of the ancient Velothi adherents using the Empire push as a disguise for their own activities they therefore would be likely to prefer the khajiit as you suggest, but also they might operate on the principal that their enemy's enemy might be useful, so they might make disguised links with non-dunmer and non-high elf oriented factions, probs with the intent to oppose the Empire since they would fundamentally be freedon fighters...
Quote:by the way, if you'd like to extend the Trader's Guild onto Vvardenfell, I am fine with it, their is a convenient "fake" guild called the Fishmongers and Tanners guild and some others in Vivec City.... so if you'd like to make them actually part of an overall Trader's Guild, I am fine with that.... plus, since they appear not to be a traditional guild but one that has risen up with the Imperial occupation, then I think Vivec City is a great base of operation on Vvardenfell, seeing as how the Trader's Guild has little influence on Vvardenfell... even less than the outlander Thieves Guild, and much less than the Cammona Tong
Now here comes another development - if the Traders Guild could be Velothi remnants, then who are their real source going to be? Maybe it is the Ashlanders? And their rise and fall rests with the Ashlanders who have infiltrated the Great Houses and Guilds through marriage, adoption, etc... These might be tribes like the Ashemusa who made no overt links with Cammona Tong or Great Houses - but who retain the healthier form of ancestor worship that was seen in the cavern of the Nerevarines...
- KuKulzA - 02-13-2006
some of your analysis got mixed up in my quotes...
___________________________________________________
so anyhow, what is the Trader's Guild really mean?
a Guild for trading? or a Guild of Trades? or both?
trading as in this guild will help open more opportunities for affiliated merchants
trades as in tanners, miners, weavers, etc. will have bonuses if they circulate their goods thru this guild
?(
- raggidman - 02-13-2006
Yes, was trying to see through your eye, but your hand got in the way...
Anyhoose, it is my way of testing a set of ideas - if they can be intertwined with a very similar set, and [usually also] provide potential for multiple outcomes then they tend to work for me whether they happen to be own my favorite preferences...
So I wound my ideas and reactions around yours and came up with further potential - so I figure its a rich seam worth exploring...
- raggidman - 02-13-2006
Quote:Originally posted by KuKulzA
...snip...
___________________________________________________
so anyhow, what is the Trader's Guild really mean?
a Guild for trading? or a Guild of Trades? or both?
trading as in this guild will help open more opportunities for affiliated merchants
trades as in tanners, miners, weavers, etc. will have bonuses if they circulate their goods thru this guild
?(
If you want to go with my suggestion above - that they are 'sleepers' of whole different order - then the Trader's Guild will be whatever they feel is most useful in the changing world, and will not reveal its true affilliations unless absolutely unavoidable. On the surface they will cotinue to seem to simply be traders...until the Ashlanders feel they are strong enough to show their hand...
On this basis the reasons they give for any quests offered would likely not be the real reasons. After all if they first set up in ST which was the home of the Strongly pro-Temple military house they would have wanted to keep their true affiliations totally unknown and unguessed at.
Further, what happens to the House that was the staunchest defender of the Temple and 'traditional' virtues? Might there not be a hope that the Redorans would turn to even more ancient and traditional values in the wake of the fall of the Tribunal and Temple? So this is where I would expect to find the strongest activity of an Ashlander-sponsered Trade Guild - which would also trade in many of the very 'traditional' goods that the Redorans favour...of all the Great Houses the Ashlanders respect the Redoran...
- Vrenir - 02-13-2006
What Ashlander group would sponser trade expansion to begin with? They seemed very isolationist to me in TESIII.
- KuKulzA - 02-13-2006
so this is Ashlander sponsored?!?!?!?
I didn't know that! ...this will be of great concern to the TES4 Vvardenfel if it is...
of course, the Redoran and the Ashlanders hate each other in TES3...
maybe the Trade Guild helps circulate traditional Dunmer crafts and such, and trades with Ashlanders and traditional Dunmer living here and there in villages on the mainland to be able to circulate traditional goods... maybe to counter the import of cheap Imperial goods
- raggidman - 02-14-2006
Well, Vrenir and KuKulzA, this is my hypothesis - best guess. And as the Ashlanders are islolationist, they have to have a powerful spy network to remain so, do they not? Their scouts were their major contribution to the Great War with the Dwemer, and tipped the balance - so you would expect their spy network to be equally exceptional, developed with the same care to concealment.
So it would be a fine plot and a great coup if they could convert the Redoran back to Velothi ways.
If you had played a Redoran, you might have felt as I did that there were hints that: the clan on the NW coast respected the Redoran; the clan in the center of the Telvanni lands had careful trade links with the Telvanni = remember that you had to find a wife for the chief in the MQ to gain his support, and his wise woman had a great friend in the Telvanni slave dealer?
The Ashemusa on the NE coast were getting squeezed out altogether w/out such links and the tribe in the SE had become almost berserk in their predatory ways - add in the remnants of tiny tribal groups scattered everywhere - but ALL had trade goods. Outlanders and the unwary were being robbed and kidnapped - sold as slaves - where do you think the goods were fenced? How?
The Commona Tong were city-house-based predators and found themselves in conflict with the thieves guild - but the Ashlanders still traded...with and through whom?
The Ashlanders had traders in each camp, and they had lots of Imperial and Great House Goods. Trade found a way - on the surface it had to be something not directly linked with whateverthe Ashllanders hated - but no one hated the poor of St Olmes and the other one next to it in Vivec = ideal go-betweens = exploit the poor of your enemy. So the goods that passed to and fro were low value, beneath the notice of the Great Houses - the unseen because uninteresting = ideal cover. And there are your Traders Guild perhaps...just my speculation of what might have been...
- Vrenir - 02-14-2006
You're right in that it makes sense that there would have to be a hidden Ashlander trade structure, but I think that their connection would not be one of direct control, more one of mutual interests and contact with a few powerful Dunmer traders, traders who would be more capable of trying to manipulate both their customers and the Ashlanders than the Ashlanders of manipulating the tradesmen. Of course, I could also see the Ashlanders not being nearly so stupid as the tradesmen would like to think; the current arrangements simply benefit them to a point where they are content to let them remain, for the time being. Perhaps with the Telvani Alliance in the Vvardenfell mod, this will change, creating an opportunity for some overlap between the mods. The Traders realize that their suppliers have finally backed out in favor of a better deal, and with the threat of collapse, the PC (by then a high-level figure in the association) is sent to the Ashlanders in order to secure a new contract.
- KuKulzA - 02-14-2006
alright, then that rules out fishmongers, tanners, miners, etc. in Vivec City being connected with that Guild
but Vrenir, maybe we can still connect it with Cammona Tong and indirectly Ashlanders on Vvardenfell...
so if we do, how about discussing it in TES4 Vvardenfell? :yes: