Silgrad Tower from the Ashes
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Archived (closed boards) Silgrad TES IV & TES III & General discussions
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Archived Silgrad Tower Claims TESIV
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Archived Ebbedin Claims
Ebb11 - Relneth's Repairs (Claimed, Finished)
Ebb11 - Relneth's Repairs (Claimed, Finished)
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Ebb11 - Relneth's Repairs (Claimed, Finished)
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10-22-2007, 02:11 AM,
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After having fought with this quest for a goodly portion of the day, I think I may have bitten off more than I can chew (at least, chew quickly...). I've got the foundation for the quest set up, but only the beginnings of the meaty actual Quest portion done. Looks like its going to take a while longer to hammer it out.
I had need of two global variables, which I've names STIJEbb11MaterialCounter1 and STIJEbb11MaterialCounter2. Their purpose is to keep track of how much armor the player needs to still turn in. Is it alright, just popping in a pair of globals? I couldn't find anything related to it in the Review Criteria page. On the up-side, this will give me a chance to allow Okan-Shei to get his alchemy apparatuses back, so he will be able to sell a few poisons and potions to the player later on. Whatever one can make from the ingredients around Ebbedin, at least. I'll have to tinker and find out what those are in a bit =D Anyhow, there's my update. Sorry for the delay 
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10-22-2007, 04:29 AM,
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In Morrowind, there was an ingredient called "Scrap Metal" that was found on Dwemer constructs and in certain smithies. I thought that might have been what you were talking about. I'm a little uneasy about Relneth accepting the stronger metals like Elven because he might not be able to work with them, not with the sorts of tools he has at his disposal. I personally think it should be kept towards Iron and Steel, and maybe Chainmail. What is going to be the "shiny reward"? =)
Why do you need two variables? I think one would do, but then again, I'm not entirely sure I know what you're thinking. I'd suggest setting up a scripted object or a quest with variables where you could use GetScriptVariable or GetQuestVariable, respectively, then to change them (I think this would work) just enter: Set [Object/Quest].[Variable] to [X - Whatever goes here] Usually, there are ways around setting up globals. I only found out about these relatively recently though and bookmarked them.  Let us know if there are any problems.Could you elaborate a little more on Okan-Shei trading potions? Let us know if there's anything else you need help with. 
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10-22-2007, 07:45 AM,
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Alright, Elven's out too ^^
The thing with the globals is very much cured now that you pointed out GetQuestVariable to me. I looked over the function page about a dozen times last night for such a thing (albiet at 5am, and very tired), and couldn't find it at all :poorme: so thanks for pointing it out =) Basically what happens is Relneth offers you a sort of job. His supplier of wares from outside Ebbedin is infrequent in their visits, and unreliable as to his orders, and he often comes up short on what he needs. This is revealed a bit in his quest for the player to bring him repair hammers. So, with Relneth not wanting all his eggs in a single wobbly basket, he asks a second wobbly basket to help distribute his needs better (ie, the player, a fickle beast if anything). How it works is he asks the player to bring him armor found through adventures to be turned to scrap. The player brings him a quantity, and is reimbursed with very little. The player would make more money from just straight selling to Relneth, if they have anywhere near a decent mercantile skill. This is offset by a larger reward as the player does multiple runs. Right now the Big Reward is simply 1500 gold and 5 poisons from Okan-Shei (30 seconds of 25% weakness to weapons, and 3 seconds of 100pts Drain Health, subject to change). If I can get the bulk of this quest hammered out in a decent amount of time, I would like to expand that reward further. Have a special sword made for the player one time, poisons provided the next, and some armor the third, rather than always the same 5 poisons and pile of money. To elaborate on Okan-Shei trading potions, what I had in mind was... er... complicated to explain. Right now, Okan-Shei is a travelling alchemist, fallen on hard times, ended up in Ebbedin, destitue, taken in by Relneth, fed, provided work and therefore some meager pay, along with friendship. Okan-Shei wants to leave Ebbedin, travel the world, collect flora, and eventually set up his own alchemist's shop once he feels knowledgeable enough. The source of his hard times, and the reason for his stranding in Ebbedin is that all of his apparatuses broke some long time ago, and all his money dried up shortly there after. Since that was his lively-hood, things sorta spiraled down. With that backstory in mind, what I was planning on was to provide a quest for the player to get Okan-Shei new alchemy equipment. Okan-Shei already sells ingredients (there's a few in his chest, and he also sells whatever he collects during his daily forage around town). Once provided with working apparatuses, he'd be able to sell potions, based strictly on what ingredients are readily available around Ebbedin. The quality of potions sold would depend on the quality of apparatuses provided. He'll ask for Apprentice gear, but he could be given a full set of Master gear, if the player manages to get an extra set. With that quest done and Okan-Shei selling his unique potions and likely poisons (knowing Morrowind's flora), he could throw some of them into the Big Reward pool provided to the player for helping Relneth and Okan-Shei stay in business. Back to the meat of the scrap metal quest... How it works. Relneth asks the player if they'd like to gather some scrap When the player answers in the affirmative, a random variable is set in the quest script. The quest stage is set to one of 9 different stages, based on that random variable. Relneth then proceeds to ask the player to gather X amount of scrap. The X is a number between 25 and 150, in groups of 25 (so 6 options), set by means of a random percent in the dialog. This number was then set as a global (but thanks to that wonderful page, is now a Quest variable instead! Hurray!). The player is given a scroll listing all the different armors that Relneth might conceivably ask for, detailing the different parts (helm, boots, etc), and how much scrap Relneth can get from each (a simple number, 10, 3, etc). The player returns to Relneth, random amounts of armor on his person, and Relneth asks the player if he has any scrap. If the player has, say, an Iron Cuirass, while Relneth is asking for Iron scrap, an option to give that cuirass to Relneth will appear. Previously, the global would have been reduced by the scrap value of that armor piece (now its a quest variable). Upon the ex-global hitting 0, Relneth would thank the player, rather than asking for more scrap, and provide him or her with a small amount of gold, based on the quantity and type of scrap that Relneth asked for (25 pieces of iron scrap is 300 gold, at the moment, for example). At this point, seven days must pass, and then the stage is reset back to Relneth asking if the player wants to gather some scrap. So, it is a large repeatable quest, basically. The second global was because Relneth would ask for two different types of scrap in the same mission, in two different quantities, on occasion, and I needed a method to track both quantities independently. What else... Do you know of a way to display variable values in dialog? What I seek is a method for Relneth telling the player "Great, thanks for all this. I still need X more pieces of Steel/Iron/Chainmail/Leather scrap, though." Beyond the player keeping track with pencil and paper, the only means to know your done gathering armor is by Relneth saying "Yay, that's enough! Here's some cash." That can be frustrating, though, with the bigger quests. 150 leather armor scraps, for example. A leather cuirass, the biggest piece, is only 14 scraps. Boots and gauntlets are only 2. That's about a dozen cuirasses, or over 70 boots and gauntlets, and it would be terribly frustrating for the player to carry all that to Relneth, only to need to give him one more pair of boots. I suppose one method would be to make a script on the list given to the player which makes a message telling the player how much of what armor is still needed upon reading. That could work... I'd still like it if Relneth could mention it, though, as it would make sense that he'd keep track and try to keep the player informed. Another thing, Journal Entries. I don't have anything beyond the player's acceptance to help Relneth. If I make an entry for the repeatable portions, how would that work? Would there be duplicate (yet relevant) entires as weeks went by, or would it show up once, and then not be added again on future repeats of that leg? Also, before I get too much farther (I'm actually quite a bit into it ._.), are repeatable quests like this even doable? I don't really have a testable version of it yet, due to the large amounts of dialog that needs to be set up (a line for each armor piece, corresponding with each quantity, corresponding with each armor type. Lots.). What I've done is tick the Allow Repeatable Quest Stages box, and push the stage back near the beginning upon completion. Is that all that's needed, or will stuff explode? If it doesn't work at all, and I'm wasting my time, please let me know, so I can make it just 3 or 4 gather quests instead (not as interesting, nor as long, but simpler to be sure). Anything I missed? :confused: Edit: Oh! Armor types. I've got Iron, Steel, Chainmail, Leather, and Fur. The elven was initially paired with the chain, so during the sections where Relneth asked for 25 pieces of one and 50 of another it was simply Iron/Steel, Chain/Elven, and Fur/Leather. With Elven gone, I don't have an even mix. I'm considering dropping fur, as I can't imagine it'd be very useful as scrap. Any thoughts, or alternatives? Edit again: In line with showing variables in dialog, if that is doable my system of quantity will change. Right now it is a branch of possibilities. 25, 50, 75, 100, 125, and 150 pieces of scrap needed. If a variable can be shown in dialog, I can simply make a single dialog tree with a random amount between 25 and 150 instead. It would save me a whole lot of dialog writing, and also provide a lot more variety to the player. Not a big meaningful amount of variety, but it'll feel a little different each time, give the quest some life. Related to this, by means of random variety, right now the quest is repeatable once a week (resets after 7 days pass), and a Big Reward is available after the quest is reset 5 times (so whether that's on the 5th time, or the completion of the 6th, I'm not clear... After looking at the script for so long and at such late hours, I'm not so clear on it anymore -.-). I'm considering making it variable. Have it repeat every 5-12 days instead of 7. It would reflect the inconsistency of his supplier better, as sometimes he'll have enough scrap, and other times he'll come up short and need the player's help. Any thoughts? Good idea for such reflection, or bad idea for making the player's schedule murky? Edited a third time for a few small points of clarity, and spelling. I'm sure there's a lot more I've missed, but at 2am I'm willing to not care  Last edit, and then its bedtime. Back to the different armor types and their alternatives. Are there any plans to bring some old Morrowind armors back into Oblivion? I remember some beautiful pictures of new Morag Tong gear, and there's the bonemold too, but what about netch and chitin? I could drop fur in a heartbeat, and pair chainmail with leather, and then have netch and chitin added in later, once they were made. If there's no plans for them, though, no sense making room in the quest for them. Good night
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10-22-2007, 10:27 PM,
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From the voice perspective, putting the number of pieces in is problematic 'cause that would mean over 150 lines of dialogue to record.
What I'd recommend off the top of my head is different lines for different ranges of remaining amounts. A first cut:
The ranges and lines can be changed, but you get the idea. Steve |
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10-23-2007, 05:59 AM,
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Ah, I didn't even consider voiced dialogue. That is an excellent point, and is likely the reason I can't find anything about displaying variables in dialogue anywhere -.- Shame, too, as some things would be nice to have, and easy to work around (player's name, replaced with other nouns when verbalized for example).
Anyway, I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the idea. I've changed how the quantity of scrap is initially handled, too (rather than a 1 through 6 chance, with it being brackets of 25, it is a 0 through 99 chance, between 25 and 150. Makes the initial handling of the quest easier, but complicates getting that amount across to the player. With your idea, that's made a lot easier. I had another though that prompted this posting, but it has completely escaped me ._. Hopefully it'll come back to me, and I can make an edit Edit: I think I mighta remembered... I'm dropping chainmail armor from my scrap collection. Reasons being - as far as when it appears in vanilla Oblivion, chainmail is the light equivalent to dwemer armor. As far as scrapability, I don't know what use it'd be. With steel and iron, sheets of metal can be made into tools and structure supports. A whole bunch of chains, I suppose it could be melted down first... The light shield for chainmail'd have to be scrapped under steel, as it is a steel shield. It is also not a very common armor, from what I've personally run across. It seems things jump from leather, straight to Elven, with a smattering of a chance of finding chainmail, unless you're very deliberate with one's leveling of their character. Being told you need to collect fifteen full suits of chainmail to meet your quota, and not being able to find any at all, bound to get frustrating. On the other hand, same could be said about any of the other armors, as they all tend to get phased out the higher the player's level. So, yeah... dropping chainmail isn't a done deal yet, I suppose, as I'm still back and forth on it. Do any of you have any thoughts? Do you find buckets of chainmail in your travels, or at least on par with iron, steel, leather, and fur? Also, things like the... what were they called... Blackwood Company... Their armor's steel. Having not gone through the fighter's guild all the way, I dunno if the player ever gets access to the armor, or if it is only receivable through murder. As such, I don't know whether to have it count towards one's steel quota. Would Relneth care? Would he even know about Blackwood? I don't think so... But still, thoughts? Are there any other armors like this that I should anticipate? I won't be using enchanted stuff, as Relneth isn't one to toy with magic, so Dark Brotherhood leathers are out. So yeah. I'm going to take a step back, and wait for a couple answers to the thousands of questions I've asked (thanks SACarrow for answering a few already ^^), and in the meantime work on sorting out what potions Okan-Shei would be able to sell later on (something that won't be implemented until one of you fine fellows sign off on it... If you don't want a limited potion/poison dealer in your blacksmith's shop, that's fine ^^). |
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10-24-2007, 05:06 AM,
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Rather than messing with Okan-Shei and alchemy, like I had planned on doing, I've instead continued to refine this scrap collecting quest (now named 'Garbage to one, Gold to another'
).The amount to be collected is a random number between 25 and 150. So, 137 is just as valid an option as 26. This made me have to rethink how I distributed reward money, because that system was previously based on brackets of 25. That led to the player getting the same amount of gold for 25 pieces of scrap and 49 pieces of scrap. So, instead, it has been updated to when the player turns in a piece of armor as scrap, half of that armor's value (based on vanilla Oblivion values) is added to a variable in the quest script, and the 'scrap value' of that armor piece is subtracted from another variable in the same script. The player is given a reward when that second variable hits <= 0, that reward being the value of the first variable. This leads to an interesting situation. My scrap values are based on mainly the size of the pieces. Cuirasses have more salvageable metal slabs than a pair of boots, for example. These values don't scale with the armor values at all. As such, a player turning in 15 iron cuirasses for the 150 scrap limit will get around 300 gold. The same player turning in 150 iron gauntlets instead will get around 1800 gold. Same amount of scrap, vastly different rewards. Right now I'm reasoning it as it is a lot more work to gather 150 pairs of gauntlets than only 15 cuirasses, and so Relneth's willing to pay more for the work. Also, I've taken SACarrow's idea and implemented it. When the player asks about salvage, a random number is selected, picking the armor type to be collected. Relneth then tells the player something to the tune of "I need you to bring me iron/steel/etc scrap. Give me a moment to recall how much I need, again...", and it adds a topic "How much do you need?" Selecting that topic will give wide interpretations of my numbers, broken into that whole 25 bracket system. Between 25 and 50 he says there's not much left, a few dozen scraps might do the trick; between 125 and 150, he'll apologize for the amount of work ahead of the player, and says there's a vast amount. He also curses his supplier Anyway, my point in all this, besides giving an update as to my progress, is to ask if my reward balance is ok. Remember, the 300/1800 gold reward is for 150 pieces of scrap; less scrap means a much smaller reward. The value is also significantly less than what the player would earn from selling the same pieces straight to a shop (mercantile and disposition allowing). This is offset (I hope) by having every fifth reward having an added reward on top of it. I've yet to start working that out, yet, but it will be tiered. The second Big Prize will be bigger than the first, and whatnot, or at least they'll build on a theme. First is a sword, next is a shield, next some armor, next some buffing potions from Okan, next some nasty poisons for that blade, etc. Something to that effect. Upon reaching the last Big Tier reward, it'll sit there, and likely be a combination of gold and potions (potions depending on Okan's apparatus quest, which I still need to work on ._.) Any thoughts? edit: Also, is there any problem with having AddTopic X being used over and over and over again for the same topic? :eek: Every time the player's given a scrap quest, a result script adds in a topic to tell the player how much of that scrap they need. It just happens to be called every time the player gets the quest. If it is a problem, I can work it into a script, and add a couple extra conditions to sort it out, but if its not a problem... *shrug* edit: A thought came to mind. When you use RemoveItem, does it only draw from the player's inventory, or are equipped items fair game? If both, is the inventory drawn from first? I'd hate to have the player lose their iron cuirass they were wearing, only to have the one the wanted to get rid of sitting in their inventory =/ Or is this such an insignificant issue that I should just wipe it out of my mind? |
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10-24-2007, 07:07 AM,
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Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryouIMO the reward balance is fine. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryouUsing the "AddTopic" function over and over again shouldn't cause a problem. As far I know the "RemoveItem" removes an item from the inventory. You could create a small test script and verify if the equipped items remain where they are.
Dum loquor, hora fugit - While I speak the time flies
Ovid 43 BC - 17 AD |
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10-25-2007, 09:36 PM,
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Sorry about the delay in replying. I’ve finally been able to sit down and read it all over without interruptions.
I’m really happy to see you’re enjoying this.Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou No problem, I have trouble finding the info I need when I’m tired too. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou It might be interesting to meet this supplier during the quest to collect scrap metal. Maybe he could point the player in the direction of the supplier to see if he might have anything worthwhile? Then perhaps the supplier could offer to sell the scrap he collected to the player for a rather steep price (which will be a fair bit over the actual value, but he won’t tell the player right away  )? Just a few ideas.Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou You were probably already planning this, but it would be important to indicate this somehow in the dialogue. Maybe he could say that if the player brings him enough metal for free, he will have enough metal AND money to make something extra for the player. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou Sounds good to me. :goodjob: Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou Nope, it’s not too complicated. Thumbs up from me. :thumbsup: Maybe this story could be reflected in the dialogue of other characters in Ebbedin too. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou I like that idea. Maybe there could be a bit of a reward though because potions and poisons becoming available for purchase might seem like a small reward compared to Relneth’s reward for his quest. Especially when alchemy equipment can be elusive, sometimes even more so than iron or steel at high levels. Maybe Okan-Shei also has an interest in enchanted accessories, like rings and amulets, and gives one to the player each time a whole set is brought in?I have an idea as to how the goods added for Okan-Shei’s quest could be calculated. Okan Shei will only take one piece of each type of equipment at one time (ie. Only one retort, one M&P, one calcinator, and one alembic). Each time he takes a piece, a variable will increase based on the quality of the equipment. Novice raises the variable by 1 Apprentice raises the variable by 2 Journeyman raises the variable by 3 Expert raises the variable by 4 Master raises the variable by 5 20 would be the maximum because there are only four pieces of equipment in a full alchemy set (4 would also be the minimum, or 8 if it’s all Apprentice equipment). Now, to calculate the goods, if the variable is between… 16 and 20, ten random strong potions/poisons are added, + a large money reward / accessory 10 and 15, ten random standard potions/poisons are added, + a moderate money reward / accessory 4 and 9, ten random weak potions/poisons are added, + a small money reward / accessory And then the variable is reset for the new set of equipment. I’m not sure if I’m 100% clear in what I’m suggesting, so if it isn’t, ask for clarification. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou I was thinking, if both quests are modded, that maybe Relneth should be the only one to handle the rewards for his quest, which would be weapons and armour, and likewise Okan-Shei handles only the rewards for his quest, which are potions and poisons. You know, give each quest its own specialized areas. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou It sounds like you have it all planned out. That’s great. :yes: I’m looking forward to seeing it in-game. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou Are you going to use two variables? I think it would get awfully complicated if you did. Nothing’s stopping you, but it might get a little messy. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou If you can get the script you mentioned to work (I haven’t tried displaying variables in messages before, but it theoretically should work), that would be preferable. Thanks SACarrow for clarifying. :goodjob: Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou Hmm… That’s a tricky question. If you want to have repeatable stages and journal entries being done over and over again, I don’t have an answer.  hrug:Without stages though, it should certainly be possible (at least in theory). Just set up variables in the quest script to keep track of where the player is in the quest and that should work. For the journal, here’s my recommendation: - The hammer quest will be separate. It will have its own journal entries, and the quest will be completed when Relneth gets them. - The first round of the scrap metal quest will be set up as its own quest as well (and as a sequel to the hammers quest), with journal entries so the player can refer to them later in the completed section. - Any rounds after that will be controlled by a third quest’s script that resets itself when the player finishes the quest. Hopefully that should work. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou Fur could be used in crafts other than armour, but I don’t know how Relneth would use it. Unfortunately, I don’t have any alternatives right now in case you did remove it. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou 5 times before the reward is available? That seems like a lot of running around before the real rewards are available. Or maybe I misunderstood. Are there going to be rewards for each round? Maybe it would be better to have big-ish rewards from the beginning or second round? I think for quest and dialogue simplicity, it should be set at 7 days. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou We do have Bonemold, I believe. Whether you want to add it right now is up to you. Adding other armour later on is also an option. Why does the armour need to be paired? red[/hr] Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou I find a fair amount. I’d keep it in myself because it is a metal and it is probably workable. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou I wouldn’t worry about quest-specific armour or enchanted armour. At least not right away. I’d focus on getting the quest to work before expanding to those.red[/hr] Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou That is an excellent name for this quest. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou See below. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou That would be either very hard or impossible to do with the normal CS because, last time I checked, there weren’t any functions for detecting that type of property on an item. It might be possible to do this with the Oblivion Script Extender, but we aren’t planning on making Silgrad Tower dependant on it, so that’s not an option right now. I would script in the values for now. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou Again, that’s great! Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou I think larger amounts of scrap merit more reward. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou Well, to tie in to what I said above, I think Relneth and Okan-Shei should keep their own rewards separate, at least if there are going to be quests for both of them. Are you still planning on having the quest repeatable? If so, how are you planning on handling the rewards? A random list? Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou No, it’s not a problem, as sandor said. Quote:Originally posted by ImaJunryou It wouldn’t hurt to put in ‘safeguards’. The script should check to see if an item is equipped before removing it (using something like GetEquipped). red[/hr] Again, if you need clarification or help, be sure to post saying so. |
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10-26-2007, 01:24 AM,
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Wow, I am very happy to see such a thorough response! My face lit up with a grin ear to ear =D
So! To respond to your response, and add some more stuff... Meeting the supplier: Hmm... I haven't actually given much thought as to the supplier as a person... So far they're a faceless 'Them' to be complained about. Before I try and fit them into the picture, I'm going to need to tour around the landscape a bit more. Despite working on this mod daily for a month or so now, and being a shadowy fan of Silgrad Tower since Morrowind, I've yet to actually take a look around in game :O My idea behind this supplier was something sorta shady. Not illegal perse, but the supplier supplied Ebbedin with leftovers from his other deals. Ebbedin's just a way to unload his excess that's not selling at all in their own 'regular' business. As such, I picture a pawn broker with an actual store front, or a successful wandering merchant who's last stop is Ebbedin. I'll ponder this some more, but it might be something to expand into another claim later (after a mold cave or two, as I'm really itching to try my hand there...). The Big Reward is indicated in the dialogue. Relneth tells the player to only bring scrap, and that there'd be wasted money if one were to buy from a shop hoping Relneth could compensate. Upon finishing a scrap quest, a reward would dispense, and Relneth would apologize for not having more on hand, but promise to try and get something together for later. So, not so much explicit, but mentioned enough that the player should get the hint. As far as Okan-Shei's backstory, and adding it to other Ebbedin residents... I've not tried my hand at general dialogue editing before ._. All dialogue I've done has been added in the Topic tab of the Quest window/section/editor portion thingy. Are there any particular quests I'd add such backstory to, or should I try and fiddle with the Dialogue window/section/editor portion thingy? Maybe just keep it in Okan-Shei's dialogue quest and set the condition to being in Ebbedin and not being Okan-shei, for example? Hmm... I hadn't considered the difficulty of aquiring alchemical apparatuses, now that you mention the payoff for Okan-Shei's reward... I always ended up making use of Frostcrag... Your method of how to calculate out the reward based on the type of aparatus is exactly what I had in mind to do (and is the same method I use for the scrap metal quest). There is a reward for giving Okan-Shei apparatuses, beyond him offering the potions, for sure. He'll give a small portion of gold (very small, he is trying to save, after all), and some potions left over from his ingredient quest (a prerequisite for the apparatus quest). As far as enchanted stuff goes, I dunno... Okan-Shei was broke well before he got stuck in Ebbedin... You'd think he'd have sold off any such thing well before ending up in his current state, and anything he kept would be important enough that he'd not give them up. Maybe he could tell the player of an enchanter somewhere else in the land, and upon the player mentioning Okan's name, have a disposition boost/small prize (I'm very much referring to Fargoth there ^_^)? As to the exact nature of the reward for the apparatuses, and what he'll offer, I'll burn that bridge when I get to it. He'll not offer anything that can't be found and made by the player from things in Ebbedin (for now, until a future Supply Line quest/claim thing is done as mentioned earlier in the thread). Anyway, your method of showing the reward and all that is fantastic, and I understand just what you mean. As far as Relneth handling his reward, and Okan handling his own reward, separately, that is the case. The 'Big Reward' is on top of these individual reward, and is more of a thank-you for the player helping both of them through some issues. Okan won't contribute to the Big Reward unless he's got the tools to do so, through completion of the apparatus quest. The scrap quest will have its own separate monetary compensation, and the apparatus quest will have its own compensation too. The Big Reward is icing on the cake to keep the player coming back to Ebbedin. Let me know if I've clarified that point well enough. 4 quests, 4 separate rewards, and a fifth extra reward on top of that to compensate for the 'smallness' of the other 4. In regards to using two variables, yes, I am. I've got it mostly set up too. The hard part is telling the player how much they've got left. with 6 brackets of possibilities, for each, its thirty-six different lines of dialogue for that part of the quest. I've got it covered though, so don't worry about the complication. Its actually really straight-forward. It just... looks scary. But its not! Works great (famous last words? ._.). As far as displaying the values upon reading the scrap book thing, I'm sure it will work. I've come across a few other mods that do the exact thing I'm looking to do, and have done it once myself in a personal mod as well. Piece of cake. As far as the journal entries go... That's probably going to be the very last thing I do. I'll add a single entry with a phrase "This is Stage X" into each stage, and see how things react. I'm not sure what to expect, but until I get to that point I'm not going to really worry about it. There's a few points that don't repeat that I can surely squeeze in any important information, and anything else can be handled by the scrap book and Relneth's dialogue. As far as dropping and keeping various armor types, and how that's all getting sorted out, I've finalised what I'm doing with it. This will also answer your question about why I wanted/needed to pair armors up. There's 5 armors that Relneth will ask for: Iron, Steel, Chainmail, Leather, and Fur. 1 out of 3 times, when he gives you the quest, he'll ask you for two of those five armors, instead of just one of them (Those matchups being Iron/Steel Steel/Chain, and Leather/Chain). If in the future other armors become available (chitin, and netch in particular), they should be simple enough to add in. It would require a slight tweak of a single variable in my script, a line of If N is X, SetStage to Y, and related dialog. I don't know about Bonemold, though. What is it? Is whatever material it is made of used anywhere else? Is it the same stuff as Relneth's shop, for example? The scrap Relneth gets is used mostly for odds and ends around the village, rather than for armor, as he doesn't get nearly enough customers to warrant the amount of scrap collected otherwise. If bonemold has more uses than as an armor, and if it is available in quantity somewhere in the world (respawning bandits somewhere, for example), let me know and I'll add it in gladly. As far as how Relneth could use fur... Well... He's the village Handy-Man, I'm sure he has his ways I expect he salvages the leathery bits from it (at least, that's his reason he gives the player). I pretend it is treated differently than leather armor, making it less firm, but better suited for the elements, or somesuch.And yeah, reward-wise for the scrap quest, the player will be rewarded for each individual scrap quest, and also given an Extra reward every fifth one of these. So the fifth cycle will have 2 rewards, basically, but every cycle will have at least 1 reward. As far as timeframe for the quest, a static 7 days it is, though dialogue simplicity isn't really a concern for me anymore (All of Okan-Shei's greetings are disposition based, for example... It took 20 minutes for my best friend to persuade me from making it also racially based. That's on top of it already being based on the time of day). Let me know if that changes your opinion as to variable availability for the quest. As far as scripting in some sort of functionality, and requiring the script extender, and whatnot, I'm not sure what you are referring to... If it is detecting item value, it is just a hard number I've added in based on the values in the construction set. The scrap value for the items is that way too. So, I think we're ok on that front, unless you are referring to something else... As to how I'm handling the repeatable rewards, this is what I've got in mind. Every time the player completes a scrap quest, a check is made against a variable BigPrize. If that >= 5, the stage is set to 115. Else, BigPrize is incremented by 1, and the stage is set to 15 (resetting the quest, selecting a new material and a new material amount). If the stage is 115, it checks a variable BigTime, which tracks which award is being offered. If it is 1 the player gets this, if it is two the player gets that, etc, up to whatever the upper limit on my creativity with it goes. It'll cap eventually, and sit at somewhere (we'll say 10). There it will simply no longer increment, and the player will get whatever's at 10 repeatably. That one will likely be a random list, but all the ones before it will be a set thing, themed somehow. Such as first you get a sword, then a shield, then some armor, then some poisons, etc. Stuff that builds off eachother and makes it feel personalized. Ideally it'll be based on player skills. A check will run seeing the player's weapon skills and offer an axe or sword based on that, for example. Once the reward is dispensed, BigTime is incremented (unless its at 10), BigPrize is reset to 0, and the stage returns to 15, restarting the quest, selecting a new material and quantity, etc etc, and the wheel begins a new turn. As far as the contents of the random list at the end, expect money, potions/poisons (based on the stage of Okan-Shei's apparatus quest), and spare weapons and armor from Relneth (I'm envisioning excess that's not selling, or that he simply can't fix. The items will have reduced stats, or lowered health for some, to be sold by the player elsewhere, or will have better stats, but simply not have a market in Ebbedin, and be gifted to the player to do with as they will). Enchantable stuff might (and that's a big might) appear in the leveled list, but with reduced item health (as in it starts damaged, and can be repaired), as Relneth won't have the tools to work with such things. I'll look into safeguards for the item removal, though I'm not sure how to go about it... The items are removed in a dialog result script, as a response to a question from Relneth ('do you have iron?' 'Yes! I've got boots made of iron' 'hurray!' Removeitem boot). If I add a dialog condition for the player having it equipped, I'm not sure if that's going to make me double the amount of related dialog I've got there, if it is even doable (is there a GetEquipped for dialog? I'll look... Yes, ok), etc. My main concern is if the player DOES have it equipped... then what? I see having two different lines of dialog for these possibilities. One runs if they've got more than 1 piece of that armor, bypassing the safeguard, and another running if it is just one, checking if it is equipped, and then offering another choice about wanting to give up what you've got equiped. That's a bunch more dialog if that's the route it goes. I can do it, for sure, but its going to get cluttered quick. When I say cluttered, I'd like to point out I've already got more than 45 topics for this one quest, not including variations within those topics. So, it is already cluttered in that sense, but this would add another layer of complexity, whereas the current 45+ topics are laid out somewhat flat. Your thoughts? As a final note, how do you make those nifty quote blocks? It'd really help in these big long posts of mine where I constantly refer to your referral of something I previously referred to... :eek: edit: Gya, I got so caught up in responding, I forgot to add new stuff to my reply... Progress-wise, I've got the dialog for telling the player how much scrap they still need left to do, as well as the dialog for turning in all the materials, except iron, which is already done. I also still need to implement the Big Prize, but everything is set up for it. I just need to pick the prize, and add the dialog for the occasion. Then there's Okan-Shei's apparatus quest which I've yet to even start. In related news, another bit of feature-creep I'm interested is one of these repeatable quests for Okan-Shei, for ingredients after the apparatus quest. This would expand Okan-Shei's selection of poisons and potions to possibilities beyond Ebbedin's flora. I'm hesitant to start planning such a quest, as it'd overlap with my future Supply Line idea, and also would keep this mod from review for another number of weeks beyond when I already thought it'd be long done -.- So, do you think such a thing would be nice to have, or should I save such a quest for a later broader claim down the road? |
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10-26-2007, 02:11 AM,
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Quote:I'm hesitant to start planning such a quest, as it'd overlap with my future Supply Line idea, and also would keep this mod from review for another number of weeks beyond when I already thought it'd be long done This is of course TID's call to make, but I'd love to see this in-game as soon as you're comfortable with it. Not only for playability, but also as an example of a pretty complex quest to analyze and copy. I think additional quests can be added after initial merging; I hope to do that with a couple of my claims. Thanks, Steve |
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