Are we decided on scale then?

[Dave_91]

Alright. Simple question. Which scale landscape are we going for? We have to get this decided ASAP so we can start generating regions and so on...

I understand the fact that going back to 1x loses our originality when compared with other similar mods.

I wouldn't mind seeing a 1.5 scale Vvardenfell.

The 2x is massive and has its good and bad points. The good thing about it, is that it gives us lots of room to play with and spread things out on. I like the idea of a huge rainforest (bitter coast), massive mountain region, huge desert etc. but the issue of filling it up with assets whilst keeping it interesting always arises.

My biggest concern for the 2x scale is actually not filling it up, but the size of the land. I think it looks weird at 2x scale because certain areas (like red mountain) just look out of proportion and a bit unrealistic (super-wide foyadas, for example). This could be solved by making massive changes to the heightmap. I mean massive. For instance, we could make red mountain itself much higher and imposing. I guess it would require much more work but I would prefer it that way because as it stands, I'm not too keen on the 2x scale.

We'd also need many more roads (the main ones should be more windy and varied with roads coming from them). I like having more roads though because it makes each trip from area-to-area different if the player decides to follow a different path.

[DarkAsmodeous]

1.5 with alterations sounds like perfect way to leave room for you to add and shape the land, I hadn't considered that. Good idea.

I must say, I'm glad to see you guys excited about continuing.

[Dave_91]

Yeah 1.5 is in the middle - it'll still require a decent amount of work but gives us more area to mess around with and edit than the original scale.

Lightwave - if it's not too much trouble, could you use your programs to create the 1.5 scale version so we can see how it looks?

[Seniosh]

Nice catch on the landscape features looking weird scaled 2x, i wouldn't have thought of that at all.

Yeah, i've gotta agree with you and DA, 1.5 means you have to make less modifications (still reduce the width of the foyadas, scale down Red Mountain maybe)).

The one thing about roads- Don't add too many, and don't make them too direct/easy.

Maybe it's just a personal preference thing, but oblivion seemed REALLY small for me because all of its roads went directly to every city, with a minimum of effort. On the other hand, Morrowind seemed huge because... well many of the roads were crap. I mean, it would have taken ages to walk to someplace like Sadrith Mora or Tel Vos, which made it that much bigger. So don't make it too easy to use the roads

[Dave_91]

Morrowind seemed huge because... well many of the roads were crap

Lol, I was just looking at a MW map before you posted and realised how mad the roads were. That's exactly how I'd like to see the roads in our mod except longer and with more 'branches' coming from them.

Here's that map I meant.

[Seniosh]

Won't let me access the map (i'm getting a 403 AND a 404, must be my lucky day).

But yeah, long mad roads, filled with cliffracers, naked nords, branches, offshoots. Also, the terrain lends itself nicely to long, windy roads.

In the center of Cyrodiil is... a city. How incredibly convenient, everything can just run to it, around it, etc, it's so easy.

In the center of Morrowind is... a mountain. Well you can't just run over a mountain can you? You'll have to go around. and oh yeah, the landscape's a volcanic nightmare in some places, so roads may be a bit backwards... You'll deal with it or die outlander. That was morrowind, and it was amazing(ly hard)

But back on topic, i don't think there've been any objections to 1.5x scale. Compromise is always good, and i'm sure Lightwave will be able to magick a 1.5x heightmap. he's amazing at that. Of course, there's only been Dave, DA, and i posting, so i think we should let other people have a way before coming to consensus

[Coinneach]

1.5 sounds like the best way forward, as it will allow creativity and at the same time not make it too much of a chore to build.

And morrowind's roads were great.... I remember when I first got the game, I didn't know how to look at the map so when I went off the roads (running away from a cliffracer ) I got very very lost :lmao:

It sort of reminded of Mirkwood in The Hobbit, when they stray off the road and nearly all die

[Moryal]

Well if we go with the 1.5x scale, the roads wouldn't need modified straight away... New roads could be created at a later date with the vanilla MW roads superimposed for now... After a few cities are done people could create new roads if they wished without it being any more difficult than it would be now..

[Lightwave]

1.5 (2.25x the modding area) is no problem - I've even given one to someone else before and still have it laying around on my HD, but I'll regenerate one in a nicer FormID range. And I did a 1.7 for someone else in TES3 ages ago too - 1.7 approximately maxed out Morrowind's landscape height limit.

So I'll go ahead and make another 1.5 then (it's really easy with TESAnnwyn, you only need a couple of commands to make it). Initially just with TES4 converted textures (we can replace with region generation and superimposed roads at any time in the future). I'll have to fiddle a little bit to use the different set of textures, but I can do that after the LOD is generated and present both for comparing.

I hope the Cavern of the Incarnate looks good, it looked majestic from any distance in 2x, but utterly abysmal in 1x and that's all down to the LOD mesh algorithm that Beth are using, so we'll see what happens ...

[Moryal]

You can always change something as big as the cavern of the incarnate later too.