Ferries

[TheImperialDragon]

I've been thinking for a while about what would be a good way to mod ferries, like the ones that will be on either side of Ebbedin. I haven't done much in terms of modding (I've got it a little bit started) or general math, but here's how I see it happening so far:

Similar to how things were in Morrowind, the player will talk to a boatmaster who can offer "Travel" services to the player. Now going into the more complicated stuff, the player can choose to sleep during the ride. That means we're aiming to make it possible for the player to enjoy the sights along the way.

The main difficulty I see is the scripting to make the boat move, and the player along with it. Right now I still need to try things out, but hopefully the solution will be one that makes it so that any object on the mesh will move with the boat.

There are a few things that I've been thinking a little bit about, but haven't come up with solutions for. Maybe some of you will have some ideas? =)

I want the boat to move, obviously. However, I've been having some difficulty in figuring out how I'll get it to move along a curved path. It would probably be much easier with a square root function of some sort, but that isn't available. What I was hoping for was some sort of way to calculate the boat's position on a circle using only an initial position (x and y) and a timer value. If it helps, the equation for a circle is X² + Y² = radius². I think the solution would involve a number of equations, but I haven't had the time to really go over this part yet. If worse comes to worse and neither myself or anybody else is able to find a solution, the boat will move in straight lines, rotating every so often. I should probably also mention that the boat moves according to a 'state' variable in the script. I'll post a part of the script later to show what I mean.

Also, how should the boat logically move? Should there be oars? Maybe a sail? Will an NPC 'drive' the boat? Do we need new animations? What is the best way to do this?

Finally, should we add collision around the boat so that the player won't be able to jump off? Making a collision mesh to surround the boat shouldn't be too difficult. It would be enabled when the player is on the moving boat, and disabled when the boat has finished its tour. It would probably move with the boat using the MoveTo function.

[Razorwing]

This is probably a bad idea, but what the heck, I'll throw it on the table. What if the boat ride wasn't modded but rather was a video sequence?

[Rickious]

I dont script for ES4 and havent modded it. But have done for a few other games in the past and know the basics. I can tell from the way ES works that if the floor moved beneath your feet, it would probably slide beneath you.

2 major things I personally feel are missing from the game are to be able to stand on moving objects, and slippery ice\snow. These would add sooooo many options, a ferry like suggested here, where you can interact onboard like a mini village, bar, a shop, etc. and also horse drawn carts or a train, mine carts, slippery slopes for goonies style rides through caves...

Anyway, thats the job of scriptors as my laptop GFX is too low to run TES4 otherwise i love experimenting. Could put TES3 on but is that the same in terms of scripting? I mean if i tried to experiment around with such on TES3 construction and came up with something, could it be converted to work on TES4?

Also...

Would it make it any easier if it were those chain-pulling ferries. you know, the ones which just move forward and backward. I think the turning movements at either end of the journey may look jerky and would definitely add much complexity to the scripting.

[bob196045]

A Charon style boatride

Scripting can cause the boat to move from point A to B to C and back all that would be needed is a ferryman and some rowing animation (single oar) activated when the player steps on the boat (after paying of course)



Enjoy
Diet Bob

[Rickious]

so the player would move with the boat without problem?

Would a linear forward then reverse style be better then? I dont think this would detract unless the journey was a long long distance. Shorter distances would probably be more likely to develop as a linear one?

Let me know if a boat needs some concept art! :goodjob:

[Seniosh]

Here's a question for you - what if the ferry was actually a door object? Those are animated, and if i'm not mistaken, the collision moves with the door, as i have clearly seen opening doors push NPCs out of the way.

If you make a special door and hand-tailor the animation so that it matches the distance from one side of the other, you might be able to make a ferry.

The one thing i'm not sure of is if the player would stay on top of the ferry, or how an NPC would work, but using doors is an idea i've always wondered about.

Another interesting idea would be to create a mount, so you would essentially ride the ferry like a horse. The only question in that case would be how to have another NPC on it, and how to make it self-guided, but it's still an interesting idea in any case

[TheImperialDragon]

Scripting can cause the boat to move from point A to B to C and back all that would be needed is a ferryman and some rowing animation (single oar) activated when the player steps on the boat (after paying of course)

That's exactly like what I'm trying to do, only from A to B then B to A.

Right now, my main concern is getting the player to move with the boat.

Maybe I was a bit unclear in the OP, but the collision does move with the boat (there's a small change that needs to be made in the NIF to allow that, thanks to SACarrow for finding this), but the player doesn't move with the collsion.

I personally don't see how trying the boat as a door-type object would change how it interacts with actors in the world, but I'll make a note of trying it later if we don't find a solution. hrug: Maybe we should be more interested in how other activator objects (such as the Ayleid pressure plate) managed to have the player move with it.

I'd rather not have a linear path for the boat ride. I think it would be simply too dull, and maybe a touch unrealistic. The curves on the image are probably a bit exaggerated for what I was suggesting.

A video might be a nice workaround. The advantage is the player can skip it if it gets boring. The disadvantage is the player can't look around while on the boat. I think it would also take a lot of extra work to do.

Having the boat as a mount is an interesting idea, but I think it would give the player a bit too much freedom, and I can think of a number of problems that could arise from doing it this way (a boat showing up behind the player during fast travel, losing the boat, killing the boat...). We'd also need to give the boat NIF the properties of a mount-type creature.

I don't know if there are any modelers who'd be willing to work on a Morrowind-styled boat if concept art was made. Anyone?

[Rickious]

Do you know the ferries i mean though that go forward then backward in a line, they haul themselves across wide rivers etc using a huge chain anchored on either bank. It is realistic because they are real. I was only worried how the boat would turn, can TES4 make then turn gracefully and smoothly?

I suppose the question is how large and money making is this island? would it suit a large, roamable ferry? You mentioned ores too so it would have to pay for the construction and the labour.

For modelling are we talking 3D studio max or CS?

[TheImperialDragon]

That would be a lot of chain as the boat ride is getting close to a half kilometer. To me, it also seems a bit too modern. The island is known for its poverty, so I still think the standard oar method is a better way to go.

We can script the boat to move around turns, and hopefully it would look at the very least okay. It should be possible using some good old math.

[Rickious]

ah well, thats some boat ride! lol

Is slavery prominent in this area? a nice pair of ogres would do a good job of rowing!