Poll: Vvardenfell

[Hegemege]

Originally posted by Zurke
I realize a majority voted yes and nobody has really taken anything besides balmora.

At least I'm sorry about that, I'm having a 3 weeks in a row free time after next tuesday so I'll try to get something done with Vv. After that 3 weeks I'm unable to do anything in about 3 and half weeks, maybe two night in the middle of that period, because my family takes a trip to turkey for two weeks and just after that there will be 10-day grand scouting camp.

So that's my schedule for following months, FYI

I want to see this mod come to life, I'm currently hooked up with MW, which I just bought for PC

Hegemege

[Siegfried]

I voted no. As much as I would like to see Vvardenfell again, I just don't believe that its realistic, its too large of a workload, to late into Oblivion's lifetime. Unless there is someone very talented willing to step up to lead, and who is capable of doing every job out there when someone else falls short, then this needs to be archived.

However a mod that just went to a small focused area like vivec could still be plausible I think.

[Zurke]

Originally posted by Hegemege

Originally posted by Zurke
I realize a majority voted yes and nobody has really taken anything besides balmora.

At least I'm sorry about that, I'm having a 3 weeks in a row free time after next tuesday so I'll try to get something done with Vv. After that 3 weeks I'm unable to do anything in about 3 and half weeks, maybe two night in the middle of that period, because my family takes a trip to turkey for two weeks and just after that there will be 10-day grand scouting camp.

So that's my schedule for following months, FYI

I want to see this mod come to life, I'm currently hooked up with MW, which I just bought for PC

Hegemege

Hegemege, thanks for your willingness and I know you are as busy as anyone else here. We are both modding silgrad. I am guessing that since there is no 'leadership' to speak of then balmora will be the area to concentate on. And it sounds like a good plan that 2,3,4 modders can accomplish. Slow but sure will be the course. The other areas can go as they go until balmora is done(unless of course someone feels energetic). The exterior is obviously in the process with a couple of questions hanging. When that is nearing completion interiors can be done. Again there is no rush to complete as I can see, just a willingness to continue. Your happiness is first priority, silgrad second. Thanks Hegemege.

Siegfried, I completely understand what you are saying. If I waste my time doing this mod, or Silgrad or the Farmland region outside of Soluthis then I would have had interest while doing it. TES5 may be out in a couple of years and what then more mods from scratch? If tes3 can be transfered to tes4 then it stands to reason that in time this mod can except a possible tes5 engine or whatever. I can only guess that you are actively employed on another mod here. Why bother with that?

[bob196045]

I would have to say yes

But with a condition or 2

I think the leaders need to get together and make a plan on what and how things will be done. Detailed !!

The other condition is you have to be realistic and realise when your done you done !
If the mod does not gain any speed in the near future do not hesitate put it aside, archive it and move on with other projects that are moving ahead and use your talents their until Vv can be brought back with fresh insite

Enjoy
Bob

[Lightwave]

Let it die gracefully. No wait ... !

This mod has suffered because no leader has been willing to do much or any actual modding work, it's been too conceptual and too idealized. Any ideal that this will somehow be the best Vvardenfell of the other rivals is flawed without anyone to do any visible work.

I suggest a new style of leadership. A strong leader, one who is infinitely more powerful. I give you ...

No wait ...

No seriously, I'm willing to suggest a virtual dictatorship for a short period where someone like Zurke can just get on with it, unobstructed, as they see fit, because no one else is and this is the only way others may get interested enough to jump on board and get anything done rather than dilly dally or worry about the current imperfections and limitations of what we have available - we can improve on those much later.

When I found this project in December 2006, it hadn't actually produced anything. Other than some models and lots and lots of concepts, someone had been struggling for months to make the heightmap. I'd already converted the original heightmap to TES4 the month before and in January 2007 we got official permission to use the 2x landscape. By the beginning of March 2007 I'd released a texture converted 2x landscape with all the original NPCs placed. Some people placed some buildings, yet it all seemed to fizzle with no more than 2 people trying anything. By mid 2007 the original leader and founder, KuKulzA, had given up and InsanitySorrow and Dave_91 became leaders with cire992 and myself in the core. The leaders voiced some doubts over the 2x scale, so in September I gave out 1x and 2x landscapes, completed with NPCs and all placed buildings (from TES3, using Galarielle's NIF converter). Very little feedback from anyone, so I left it as I've continued to leave it, just waiting a firm choice ...

AFAIK cire992 was the only one committed to doing any sizable CS work and left in dire frustration early this year. We finally decided on a 1.5x landscape some months ago, so I did the same with that as the other maps, gave a fully populated landscape for people to see and mod with. And waited for someone to put something on it (i.e. other than the temporary TES3 content) ...

It's not that this mod is too big to make - ST is a bigger landscape. It's not that not enough people are interested in seeing this mod made - there's frequently a flurry of fresh faces showing interest and of any TES project this is probably the most popular one there could ever be. Some are even interested in modding, they wait to be told what to do, and hear nothing more than "welcome aboard" or get told to wait for something. I've put a lot of time in to convert and give a visitable world, hinting with those screenshots what the most basic conversion of Vvardenfell would look like. I just want anyone to start modding on this landscape. We're missing some meshes, sure, but just use what we've got for now. Almost anything can be swapped and replaced later and this includes everything, right down to landscape textures and region generation.

And there's been too much 'planning' but no solid plans. There's not enough dedication from the existing leadership, no promotion (the web site is still March 2006!), there's been too much doubt and too much discussion without results. I have no wish to be a leader of this mod as I cannot give the commitment to do this mod myself when no-one else is - I agree this is a vital quality in a mod leader. I will be here to rearguard us from the ESP technical horrors that have killed other mods and will be willing to mod myself when I know I'm not acting alone.

Archiving the mod for a future date is essentially all this project has been doing for the last 2 years, so action is the only realistic alternative I see now. Let anyone who wants to start working on towns and villages and if there's a conflict of interest then fantastic, it means we have enough people working on things and can share ideas.

Btw, TES5 (if it ever happens) is unlikely to see off the existing work poured in to this mod. Unless Bethesda go out of their way to radically change the ESP structure to make it impractical to decode (such as encrypting it which would only cripple the modding community) then it'll always be possible to convert most of the work to a TES5 compatible structure and continue with that engine.

These are my thoughts,

Lightwave

[Zurke]

Thanks for the recommendations Lightwave. It's not that I don't necessarally want the position it's that I don't know the position or what is expected. I can guide the mod the way a core decides and make final decisions but that may not be all that is expected. I take my view of a leader from Sandor who I have worked with since I joined the forums. If I had to live up to that there is no doubt I would fail .
I am a modder and can use the CS fairly well but I do not know everything. I like to mod in the CS so I guess that is a plus.

If a new core is developed and it is decided that I will take on temp leadership for as long as needed then I will except. But in the reality that I will be learning at that. My beliefs are that simplicity is best and ideas can be added later. I agree with you lightwave in the idea of 'just mod the darn thing' and have somewhere to put those ideas.

Balmora should be the focus. If we start from scratch with what I have so far or we continue with what Dave_91 has accomplished should be a new core decision. But keep the mod to balmora for the time being. Once the buildings, landscape, NPCs(AI) and possibly quests are completed then move on. The reason why I think this way is because there are obviously few showing interest at the moment and as I said previously 2 to 4 modder could knock the heck out of this thing and still have time for other projects. Nobody will kill themselves and it will hopefully be manageable. As time moves on and more people join then who knows. The future and expanding to other areas can be decided by the core as time goes on.

As SACarrow would say "that is my two cents".

[grumbler]

Zurke and Lightwave, I think you have gotten to the core of what i have been saying.

The thing this mod lacks (besides some texture for the Telvanni) is leadership. I don't blame anyone who came aboard after it started; How the hell could they lead when the whole mod was in flux?

My approach is simple, direct, easily understood, and doable: we will port TES 3 to the Vv 1.5x landscape (adjusting as necessary though walls and the like) and just port TES3 to TES4. I don't know how we will do Telvanni structures, but I bet we get 10 people to tell us if we ask (with a product like Balmora) in hand.

Think about all the "yeh, but"s now. We have to answer them for the skeptics.

I laugh! Actually laugh! at those who brag that their mod is not just TES3 in TES4 clothing! What better advertisement for a mod than that it is exactly that!

They expect to make Better than Morrowind? In their dreams!

I am doing a poll on this.

Edit: I cannot create a poll. Pity, but there you are. =) Make comments poll-like as necessary.

Edited again for spelling.

[Zurke]

Originally posted by grumbler
Zurke and Lightwave, I think you have gotten to the core of what I have been saying.

The thing this mod lacks (besides some texture for the Telvanni) is leadership. I don't blame anyone who came aboard after it started; How the hell could they lead when the whole mod was in flux?

My approach is simple, direct, easily understood, and doable: we will port TES 3 to the Vv 1.5x landscape (adjusting as necessary though walls and the like) and just port TES3 to TES4. I don't know how we will do Telvanni structures, but I bet we get 10 people to tell us if we ask (with a product like Balmora) in hand.

Think abut all the "yeh, but"s now. We have to answer them for the skeptics.

I laugh! Actually laugh! at those who brag that there mod is not just TES3 in TES4 clothing! What better advertisement for a mod than that it is exactly that!

They expect to make Better than Morrowind? In their dreams!

I am doing a poll on this.

Just wondering, are you talking about TES3 bethesda or TES3 BC?

[grumbler]

Originally posted by Zurke
Just wondering, are you talking about TES3 bethesda or TES3 BC?

TES3 as Bethesda gave it to us. All the same locations, NPCs, etc.

You cannot deny that this would be both easy to do (it has been done before) and exciting to a lot of modders (many of whom have already done this).

[Zurke]

Originally posted by grumbler

Originally posted by Zurke
Just wondering, are you talking about TES3 bethesda or TES3 BC?

TYES3 as Bethesda gave it to us. All the same locations, NPCs, etc.

You cannot deny that this would be both easy to do (it has been done before) and exciting to a lot of modders (many of whom have already done this).

It that case, I have to agree with anyone who has ever said it is illegal. I think this has already been beaten into mash and it is why it has not been done that way since the start. The idea is great but implementation could be a mistake.