Deepen Moor - Arrenad Cavern [Completed]

[ShadowDancer]

Originally posted by earendil
I have a couple more questions. What does the pathgrid do for creatures in the cave? Is it meant for wandering NPCs to use? I have several areas where a pathgrid may not be usable for an NPC (rock bridges over a large chasm).

I am almost done with the first draft of my dungeon. I just have to clean up ID names and polish the extraneous bits better.

The layout and plot is as follows:
The first level is winding paths with spiders and rats (I dont know what else goes in caves in this area) much luminous russula, and 2 doors, one which is not locked.
The unlocked door leads to the second level which presents you with 2 paths in front of you. Both lead to a large vertical chasm. One path over a rock bridge leads to eventually a large room with a troll guarding the lost adventurer. He has a key to the next level down below and a not to give his ring back to his wife in Soluthis (an earlier claim of mine). The ring is not on his person, as his ghost has it in the first level pool.
Travelling down the second path leads down to the lover part of the chasm filled with lava and a rock bridge. If you have the key, the path far behind you collapses and traps you in, forcing you to enter the third level.
The third level has the exiled councilor, who is dead. Reading his notes discovers that he has a mild allergy to luminous russola that he wasn't aware of until he was living with it constantly. He discovers the enchantment on the door and makes a ring to counteract it, but the lock is too well made to be had my magical means. Since you have they key, you can take the ring and escape the prison (this is where my problem is, the script on the door should work, I tried with a vanilla oblivion door, but the moldcave doorjamb doesn't like me ). You go up to the locked door from level 1 and see the pool. The ghost appears when you inspect the pool more closely.
The treasure is whatever you find in the 3rd level or on the adventurer.

I hope I'm not being overly ambitious with this claim. I still have to make the reward for the Adventurer's ring when you return it (separate mod file), if you decide to return it. I've been busy with work lately, so progress has been a bit slow, but I should be done with the first complete draft soon.

My understanding is that the pathgrid allows creatures in an area to know where the ground is and if they are spawned, (like through a summon spell) they appear at the nearest node in the pathgrid to where the spell summons them. Without it, creatures placed in a cell will fall through the floor and summon spells won't work. It is also used during the wander package by creatures to move about. If the pathgrid generation doesn't put nodes over a rock bridge and you want them to wander across it, you can manually place nodes for them there and connect them to the rest of the pathgrid.

If you have nodes that are going over a drop-off, you can disconnect them from the node that makes a path through the air so that the creatures don't try to walk there.

It doesn't sound too ambitious to me. It should be workable.

[TheImperialDragon]

It sounds like a neat dungeon. =) Rats and spiders seem as good as any other creature type. I would suggest using a leveled creature rather than just a troll though, in that chasm area you mentioned.

Pathgrids basically tell creatures and NPCs how to move around places - that's their main function. You have to create these pathgrids so the NPCs don't try to walk in a straight line to wherever their destination might be, ignoring minor obstacles such as walls. Even in cells without any placed NPCs or creatures, they're useful to have just in case the player does have someone or something following them. Typically, creatures and NPCs will stick to the pathgrid and not go too far from it. There's a bit more information on the CS wiki (I attached the URL in a text file since a smiley is interfering with the link :bash: ). I hope that answers your questions.

If the script is giving you trouble, I might be able to help. If the model is the problem we'll need to see if there's anything we can do to get the script working.

I don't think you're being too ambitious - the more quests and neat stuff like this, the better. There's no immediate rush, so don't worry. Take the time you need.

[earendil]

Is there an email address I can send my first version to?
Unfortunately, our internet access point providers instated a new proxy server which blocks 10x more for half the price . I have to use a proxy just to look at these pages and uploading is near impossible, but my email servers havent been blocked yet. I have no other means of internet access as of yet since I've given up on the locally produced, extravagantly priced commercial wireless mess they provide for us.

[TheImperialDragon]

I sent a PM with an E-mail address.

[SACarrow]

I sent one too. Here is a message from earendil and his ESP:

I could not find the entrance to the dungeon in the world space (actually the entire region of Deepen Moor is completely empty; I'm not sure if that was deliberate in v3.12 or if I have a somewhat corrupt or incomplete esm) so to get in you'll have to coc into DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior1. I replaced the troll with a leveled troll as it is somewhat apropos to the note left on the remains nearby . He floats (the troll) and I can't figure out why. The door mentioned before in the 3rd level hasn't been visible to me as of yet, but I placed a vanilla animation door after it to show the script's functionality. Hopefully it looks good. Enjoy .

I greatly appreciate this. About every week, they change something to the servers out here and screw with our access to the net.

Thank you very much.

Earendil

[TheImperialDragon]

Deepen Moor wouldn't show up in any ESM version lower than 3.19, and even with that version, there would still be many missing meshes and textures until I send the final region data files to Razorwing for the next BSA. But you should have everything you need to mod the dungeon interior.

I'll take a look.

EDIT: I got your e-mail too, earendil!

EDIT2: I'm a bit too tired to do a full review right now (I couldn't sleep last night hrug: ), but I will say that it is big! =) Some of the interiors have too many objects, so we might need to separate some parts of the dungeon into separate cells. I'll get back to this.

[TheImperialDragon]

Okay, earendil. First of all, the cave is very nice. :goodjob: I really like what you've done with the effects in some parts of the dungeon. :thumbsup:

I playtested the dungeon, and it is fun and maze-like.

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General:

You may want to change a few of the cell settings because the cave is very dark, despite the number of placed lights (according to the CS, neither the first or second cells have ambient lighting at all). A few tips on lighting:
- Overlapping light radii can have a profound impact on the FPS rate in that cell
- When you place several small lights very close to each other, you should take them all out and just put one big light to cover the area.
- Try to limit each cell's light number to about 20.
The construction set wiki has a very good article section on lighting, found near the bottom of the page here.

There should be a bit more loot in the cave. I noticed gems and potions scattered about, but there should maybe be a few more hidden loot containers.

LEVEL ONE

Just a few areas that I think could use more rocks, I marked these areas in yellow rectangles on the map.

There are 28 lights in this interior, which is a few too many. Could you try to reduce that number to something more like 20?

The chamber with the ghost of Sirrolus Faccus has a very deep water pit. There needs to be a way to get out of that water pit in case the player falls in (either a ramp or a ladder).

I would also suggest using a large rock as a higher floor in that pit, so it isn't so deep.

Perhaps there should be something near the trigger zone to lure the player down... a chest perhaps?

You need to connect the pathgrid to the trigger zone area. For me, the ghost appears on the nearest pathgrid point.



LEVEL TWO

This cell has too many objects, so we'll need to divide it. Shouldn't be too hard to do, the easiest way I know of mainly involves duplicating the cell (right click it in the cell view window), deciding where you want the divide, clearing unwanted objects, and then installing some new doors. You may need to take care with scripted objects... have it so that the trigger zone and the cave in left in the same cell, that's the simplest way to keep things working. Move the cave-in closer to the large lava chamber, perhaps? It might be a good idea to back up your ESP before doing any of this, just in case. If you need help or have any trouble, let me know.

Sirrolus Faccus' skeleton is floating.

Just a few corrections for one of the paragraphs of Sirrolus Faccus' journal, though not many (things I changed are in green):
[blockquote]The other treasure is a key. I acquired it, though not intentionally, from a poor traveling Dunmer after many bottles of Sujamma. He told me to look in Deepen Moor and to watch my step. I wish I listened to that second part more closely. Anyway, I believe this is the cave the key calls home. At least, I think it is. He was rather drunk and half of what he said made no sense, but it doesn't matter now.[/blockquote]

The chamber with Sirrolus Faccus' skeleton could use more objects... perhaps either large rocks or crystals on the ceiling. Make it interesting. :goodjob:

The pathgrid should cover more of the large chamber with Sirrolus Faccus' skeleton.

There are a few unused layout pieces, I marked these with red rectangles

In the lava pit area, I would suggest using a few of the larger rock types on the walls just to make it look a little rougher and less uniform.

At the top of that same pit area, there is a StRwMoldcaveBridge01 object connected to a StRwMoldcaveBridgeBend04 object. There is a gap on the underside of that junction that needs to be covered.

There's a StRwMoldcaveRoomSingle02 layout piece where the player can fall down and not get back up again. Either make it impossible to fall down, or use another layout piece.

There are a few areas that could use some more rocks and boulders. Refer to the map (yellow rectangles).

Do you want to change the cell's clipping distance settings? I couldn't see the magma below when I looked down into the big pit, I don't know if that's how you intended it.

You might want to add a few more enemies after splitting the cell, the density you had in level 1 seemed appropriate.



LEVEL THREE

A number of the StFloraBiCoLuminousRussola09 objects near the entrance either all or almost all have the exact same rotation of 34 degrees. Change it a little bit for every mushroom.

Nice story for the councilor! :goodjob: My only suggestions are to have the word "Telvanni" mentioned somewhere just so new Morrowind-explorers have a bit of knowledge about who's involved, and to elaborate more about why the councilor suspected a cave-in down the other path.

The StRwMoldcaveRoomSingle02 piece needs stairs or a rock ramp placed so that the player can get out of the water.

The key should use one of the ST models.

I recommend flagging both the key and the ring as quest objects until after the player has unlocked the magic door (and script it so that activating that door unlocks the door back to the first level) so the player can't do something silly like dropping them into the lava. I would also suggest keeping the door open permanently, just in case the player does somehow do something to get him or herself stuck after getting out the first time. :O

I noticed the ring has some pretty powerful enchantments. Could you remove or lessen the enchantment for reasons of game balance?

Reduce the number of flora mushroom objects in this cell.

The total number of objects in this cell, like with the second level, is a bit high, but we'll see what it's like after removing some of the mushrooms. If need be, we can just separate this area too.

(Really try to reduce the number of lights in this cell if you don't split it. A number of the lights on the upper level of that second room aren't necessary)

Make sure you have the music you want checked for this interior cell (it's set to Default).

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I counted three scripted events: The appearance of Sirrolus Faccus' ghost, the cave-in, and the magic door. Is there anything else?

I like the dungeon. Would I be correct in assuming you've played and possibly modded Morrowind in the past?

If you have any questions about anything here, feel free to ask. :goodjob:

[earendil]

I've made a few small Morrowind mods. One fairly large one based on characters and ideas from the Egyptian Book of the Dead. Each of the gods would give you a quest to accomplish somewhere on Vvardenfell, usually to kill something or find something.

I'll do my best to make adjustments soon. I'm going home for a break of 3 weeks in a few days so it'll be a bit before I'm done.

Before I made the current version, the pit was visible from the bridges above. I made a large rock bridge far below to break up the image from above, but it was too distant to view, so I put the fog distance to obscure the view. I can split the cell so the pit exists in both cells, if you fall in you'd die anyway (without scrolls of Icarian flight of course ). I can leave the entire pit in both cells so as not to lose continuity, but in the upper cell the paths could be blocked off.

I intended for the lighting to resemble that of a horror film. I placed lights on nearly every patch of luminous russula I placed, hence the greatly lighted upper room in level 3. I'll remove as many of the lights as I can and use appropriate ambient lighting. I had several other scripts involving Sirrolus Flaccus's ghost using trigger zones. I streamlined them into this but forgot about the path grid around him.

Thanks.

[TheImperialDragon]

I got your latest version, excellent work. :applause: I made a couple of changes and listed a few final suggestions.

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Change log

There was still a gap in the StRwMoldcaveRoomSingle02 in cell DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior2 that the player could fall through, but I filled that with more rocks so it's okay now.

I placed a few more rocks in the tunnel adjacent to StRwMoldcaveRoomSingle02 in cell DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior2.

I found a desert spider in cell DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior2 and replaced it with a cave spider.

I added another light to the area near the crystals in cell DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior2 to light a bit more of the room.

I moved a few mushrooms of the wall in cell DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior2A

I moved a sack in cell DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior2A closer to the skeleton, and placed a light to light both objects.

I locked one of the chests in cell DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior3 with a leveled lock. Just a bit more challenge.

I changed a few of the lights in DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior3. One candle was removed from the top room, and one ambient light was added near the exit.

There was a bit of a bug in STEDArrenadMagicDoorScript because of how it's now a loading door. You could leave after solving the puzzle, drop the ring somewhere, go back in, and get stuck. It could happen if the player revisits the dungeon long afterwards, so I made a few changes to the script. There are even message boxes. =)

I removed the water in the passage cell. I also placed a few rocks and an ambient light at the bottom entrance of that cell, and one ambient light at the top.

I decreased the value of Givosi Hleran's Ring to 300 and the value of Sirrolus Flaccus's Ring to 500.

I moved Givosi Hleran's body closer to the middle of the room.

There's a quest-related script attached to StFgcSh01MineLoaddoor objects, so I replaced the ones you used with StRwDoorCaveLoaddoor objects instead.


Suggestions

The pit is a bit tricky, and I've been giving it some thought. Bethesda did their Oblivion citadel towers by having one cell all to itself for the tall tower chamber. Would it be possible to do that here with the pit, the cave-in area, and the first entrance tunnel (all of them being in the same cell together)? That would solve the problem of continuity quite well I think... If you don't want to do that, I would suggest at least covering up the open cave ends and placing a non-collision killbox near the bottom in cell DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior2 just in case the player does get down there, like I did once. You can use the activator object StIdKillBoxNoCollision.

For the diary, I would put the word Telvanni in front of council instead of fools (remember he is talking about a faction he belongs to). Did you add a reason as to his suspicion about the cave-in? Maybe you could also put a bit more emphasis on needing to wear the ring in order to get the door to open?

I suggest placing one or two more lights in the DeepenMoorCavernArrenadInterior1 cell. One in the first StRwMoldcaveSmTunnelCorner01 you go into as you're leaving the ghost room, and another in the second StRwMoldcaveSmTunnelCorner01. 22 lights is fine.

If you could add a barrel of torches somewhere near the entrance of the dungeon, that would be great. :goodjob: Make sure it's an ST barrel.

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Here's the current ESP, version 1.3. Work from that one, I'll let you make final changes and then we can discuss the quest. What you were suggesting sounds very easy and very doable, though it would need to be either in this ESP or in an ESP dependant on an ESM with this merged.

Did you want this to be a quest with journal entries and quest markers?

[earendil]

I'm going to have to download this when I get back home in a few days. I'm going on leave here tomorrow so I'll be spending my time with my wife and son. I'll probably be unproductive for about 3 weeks, then I go back to work . Then I'll be back in production . I'll still check this from time to time, but I got a lot planned for my vacation.