Slavery in Morrowind

[bob196045]

Howdy

A Discussion brought up by Deeza Here: SHRAC0802 "Mithril Quarry Mine" [Claimed]

Lead the Core to discuss the Silgrad Official Stance on Slavery in Morrowind.

It is well known that slaves are commanly used by the Dunmer, even after the Armistice The Empire allowed Morrowind Province to continue its practice of slavery.

Since Oblivion however King Helseth has abolished Slavery in all of Morrowind

Slaves are more commonly used by House Dres and Telvanni and would probably be the hardest to give up this position

Slaves are less common in House Hlaalu, though some remain as plantation workers, Hlaalu being the Kings house would most likely give up their slaves without much complaining, if anything they would offer their slaves minimal wage to continue working the plantation fields as long as a profit was maintained

House Redoran also has slaves, many of these slaves work as cooks, gardeners, housekeepers..etc etc House Redoran would most likely not cause any trouble when asked to let their slaves go, they might even benefit from having Hlaalu Dres and Telvanni loosing their slaves

It is a common belief that if asked the Redoran slaves would remain with their Host families

The Silgrad Stance on Slavery in Morrowind will be as Lore dicatates, Slavery is Illigal

So how do we get their

Some Suggestions are to have an Ambassador come to Silgrad and give the player a quest to ensure that the slaves are being freed

The player would have to confront the slave owner first and request that the slave be freed

The slave will then be given the option to

1) Be Freed and Leave
2) Be Freed and Stay for a wage

If the slave decides to leave then we must decide what to do with that slave.

The slave can leave and go to his/her homeland
The slave can leave and move to another town

Here is a link to an older Morrowind post regarding slaves that might help in deciding what to do with them

Slaves in Silgrad

All that Said

Deeza has offered to head up this Quest Discussion and we look forward to great ideas


Enjoy
Bob

[Deeza]

Thank you bob, let's get this discussion started:

The way I see it, there are two interesting angles we could give this. First, the reactions of different people to the change in the law. The Great Houses are one thing, but what about the smugglers all over Morrowind? Seeing as they're breaking the law anyway, they're unlikely to take much notice of a royal decree about slavery. I reckon it's safe to say that even by the time of Oblivion there's probably still a thriving underground, illegal slave trade.

The second angle is, rather than whether or not the slaves are freed, what happens to them afterwards? Would it even be possible for them to "go back" to Argonia or Elseweyr? Most of them were born in Morrowind and would never have seen their ancestral homeland. Definitely, there would be a "return home" movement among them, but could they guarantee they would be accepted when they arrive there? If you were a Khajit living in modern Orcrest, would you want several thousand uneducated Khajit who no longer even speak their own language turning up on your doorstep?

For the Argonians in particular this is a problem - with their symbiotic connection with the Hist of Black Marsh severed for generations, they can never truly reunite with their people. Faced with this, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them preferred to remain on the Hlaalu plantations, being paid minimal wages.

A major part of the Beyond Cyrodiil Black Marsh mod concerns the problems caused by large numbers of freed slaves returning to the Marshes, and their battles with an extremist splinter faction of Great House Dres. I think in Silgrad Tower we could explore the other side of this story - the slaves who stayed behind after abolition.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

It's an obvious small mission topic: 'find an illegal slave-driver and confront them' but a clearly more interesting topic from the slave's point of view.

I'm particularly interested in hearing what you have to say about being estranged from the Hist, Deeza so I hope to continue that discussion over there. In the meantime, the remaining slaves might well face the subject of prejudice and integration.

Would they not want to mix with the Dunmer that once enslaved them and set up their own commune? In which case, might some Argonians petition the council for a sort of 'lebensraum' in which to practise their beliefs? Would there exist a sort of KKK movement on behalf of the marginalised Dunmer? Would the possible re-introduction of the Hist sap cause contraband problems? If multi-racial guards exist in the towns and cities, what sort of discrimmination might the average pioneering Argonian or Khajiit suffer?

This looks like a 'food for thought' thread indicating a lot of juicy possibilities for individual modders wishing to make their own claims unique.

[Deeza]

All good points, this is going to be a long post. OK, let's talk about them one at a time:

The Hist stuff really belongs in Black Marsh, so it should probably be discussed there. I'll post my thoughts about it later in the Garuda thread.

There will be communes of exactly the type you suggest in Black Marsh, set up by returning slaves founding their own tribes after being rejected by their cousins. Setting up one in Morrowind is also a possibility, but it would be rabidly opposed by the Temple and other general racists. Possibly some freed slaves have taken matters into their own hands and seized hideouts in caves and remote areas, which of course will increase hostility to ex-slaves in general even further....

A Dunmer terrorist organisation targeting freed slaves is all too likely. Again, Black Marsh will contain a splinter faction of House Dres which refused to accept abolition and broke off from their House's leaders because of it. The anti-abolitionist factions of Hlaalu and Redoran are likely less well-organised and powerful, but they will be there I think.

Regarding multiracial Morrowindians - I think there's some doubt about whether Argonians can interbreed with other species. All of the other ones can, apparently, because they're all ultimately descended from the Ehlnofey. But if the Argonians were created separately from marsh lizards, they probably can't.

Keep the ideas coming!

[bob196045]

Super start

Thanks Deeza for the great kick off and IG for a most enlightening response

Be assured I do not want to seem like I am watering down the creative juices, but I try not to dabble to far into the social and potical ramifications of quests, we all know the goods and bads of slavery and the aformentioned freeing of such, however our goal here is to simply answer the players question to Slavery

When player installs Silgrad he/she is going to see slaves and say to themselves "Slaves are Illigal" Then we will get a post asking us why we have slaves in Silgrad when it goes against (cough) Lore

This discussion will give us an avenue to address this issue and do it in a fun and exciting way

I think communes for freed slaves are a great idea.

Halfway and refugee houses were used in Silgrad Morrowind for such things and can be used in Silgrad Oblivion as well.



Dialogue can support alot of things with regard to slaves and what they are doing or what they have done

As mentioned in the QD Morrowind post Slaves can go to other towns and find jobs, some can become street urchins , even go back to their former owners because of loneliness


Slave says:
"I thought I would like to be free, but when I got out into the world I realised I was better off with my Dunmer family so I came back"

Slave says:
I was freed and thought I would go home to Argonia, but when I got their all seemed alien and I could not fit in, so I came back in hopes to find work.

Slave says:
I could not find work, so I stole food and was arrested, now I will die if my fine is not paid, will you help me?

Slave says:
When I left my master got angry, now he has put a bounty on me can you hide me?


Also with regard to the Underground Slave Trade... I agree that this would continue no matter what. But as far as Silgrad goes their shouldn't be too much of that going on, we are way north of the boarders and most of those slaves would go to Dres and Telvanni owners < (opinion)

Just thoughts to share

Again Super start, I think this will turn out to be Primo !!


Enjoy
Bob

[Deeza]

Very good point about most of the illegal slave trade going to the Telvanni and Dres - however, we could make an interesting, one-off quest involving a shipment of slaves arriving by mistake in our region (perhaps the ship was damaged in a storm and had to lay anchor at the nearest harbour?)

I think a subtle way to get across the way things have changed would be for most of the beggars in the bad parts of towns to be either Argonians or Khajiit... if the player stops to talk to them, or maybe gives a lowlife Khajiit some moon sugar to feed his addiction, they talk about how their lives ended up at this point, and maybe it leads to a quest or two...

Perhaps some members of the Khanaten Liberation Front (an Argonian terrorist organisation) are causing trouble in Silgrad, calling on the freed Argonians to return to their homeland and fight the Imperial occupation there. The player is asked by the city authorities to infiltrate the meetings, and in the process learns more about the hard choices facing freed slaves.

And I just thought... what about the criminal Dunmer who were enslaved as a punishment? Perhaps if the player goes to jail, they run across other inmates who complain that they're worse off being locked up in jail than in the old days, when at least they got to be outside even if they were slaves...

[bob196045]

:goodjob:

I likes it

do your stuff :check:


Enjoy
Bob

[ShadowDancer]

Originally posted by Deeza
And I just thought... what about the criminal Dunmer who were enslaved as a punishment? Perhaps if the player goes to jail, they run across other inmates who complain that they're worse off being locked up in jail than in the old days, when at least they got to be outside even if they were slaves...

Hmmm....sounds like a quest to go capture the "ex-slave" who was accidentally released instead of being thrown back into jail....Or was he really a criminal to begin with?

[bob196045]

Something given to me taken from 2003 posts

Thiers lots of the writer writing to self questions those may be disre-garded


Enjoy
Bob

Slavery in Silgrad Tower 17.01.2003, 18:45
* A few nobles have been found dead in their homes. The only links between the nobles are that they are all slave-owning Hlaalu Dunmer. In typical fashion the slaves are blamed and all are thrown into jail. The player then hears that there is a plot between some Imperial visitors in the area to break the slaves out of jail and ahs two choices, help in the breakout or report to the authorites.

If the player reports the plan to the authorites he/she is given a large reward and the Imperials are thrown in jail alongside the slaves wiht the player learning no more about the killings or plan.

Alternatively, if the player chooses to help the Imperials he is told to meet them at the jail that night. When he does he finds them and the slaves massacred. The player then has to decipher a number of clues at the scene (dont know what they are yet) to find that the real murderer is zzzzz who planned this to incrimate the slaves (I just need a reason why)

* The only thing I'd like to suggest right now is that the number of killed Dunmer nobles should be restricted to one or two, since there are other quest where we might need a few of them.
Apart from that, let it roll.

* just a question, I understood that the slaves were suspected by accident. So a proposal would be that they maybe have seen or heard anything, that would lead to the real murderer and to ensure their silence for once and for all, they will be killed in prison, just in case there would be anyone listening to them? Does that fit into your story somehow?

* Yep sounds like a good idea, i suppose they could be killed at the same time as the Imperials, on second thoughts theya re 'just slaves' perhaps they would be killed immediately for their 'crime'

*
I think they won't be killed on the spot, because it's Imperial jurisdiction, so even if they will be sentenced to death for attacking and killing a free member of the society, there will be a trial first, so in your schedule there's time enough to bring the PC into play.

[Deeza]

Originally posted by ShadowDancer

Hmmm....sounds like a quest to go capture the "ex-slave" who was accidentally released instead of being thrown back into jail....Or was he really a criminal to begin with?

Sounds interesting. The player would have to choose - do you believe the guards, or the ex-slave? Is he a criminal or the victim of a mistake? Confronting the player with a tricky decision is always a good idea...