Custom speedtrees not visible when distant

[morcroft]

I have a strange problem with my custom speedtrees. I'm trying to generate lod for a flat region with long sightlines, so VWD trees and rocks would be really useful. I've tried both the CS and TES4qLod and get roughly the same results.

The vanilla Cottonwood is visible to really great distance: 10 cells+, but my custom speetrees aren't. I know - first reaction is "it's the billboards - go see the tutorials" but no: I tried renaming the Cottonwood's billboard to match my tree name, and that billboard shows when close but vanishes in the middle distance - while the same billboard is shown quite successfully by the real cottonwoods in the far distance.

As another little test, I've created _far.nif files for some of the big retexed rocks I'm using, and they fade in and out in the middle distance - I think further out than the custom speedtrees do, but the vanilla speedtrees are visible waaay further.

So, either:
1) there's something in the .spt
2) there's something in the CS settings
3) there's something in the LOD creation

I know this is horribly vague but does anybody have any bright ideas?

[Koniption]

Hi Morcroft,

I tried troubleshooting your tree issue, and found out how to fix your tree LOD issue:

You need to move the speedtree spts to “Data/trees/*.spt” folderpath.

Then, you need to move the billboards to “Data\textures\trees\billboards\*.dds” folderpath.

You *might* only need to move either the spt or the billboard texture, and not both – I did not test without moving both. Apparently, one or both can not have a "middleman" folder (Ex: Data\tree\bm\*.spt...)

FINALLY, you run TesLODGen – and your problem is solved.

I tested using the Live Oak files for BM that you sent me, and I have PM'ed you a download with same files, in different folders, and with modified esp that has a live oak placed right beside a cottonwood – they're across the water from dungeon sewer entrance – you really can't miss the dark brooding live oak billboard in the distance. You must run TesLODGen on this esp, before using it, though. When I ran TesLODGen; I had Oblivion esm, Blackmarsh esm, SI esp, and this modified esp checked in OBMM.


Koniption

[morcroft]

Hi Koniption

Thanks for looking into this - I followed up on your tests, and I think the actual solution is summed up by
" you run TesLODGen "

In the end I found that TES4LODGen actually handled the lower level folder OK for me - I originally said that was what I ran, but edited it later to Tes4qlod, which is what I did use: sorry if this misled you.

I ran a whole series of tests, with the spt and billboard files in both locations, using the CS, Tes4qlod and TES4LODGen

I used a cleaned out worldspace with:
Row of trees: 3 x MD trees + cottonwood
4 x rock1400 - the GF version + a retex for which I created a _far.nif - one pair with VWD ticked other not.

Here's how it seems to behave:

The CS LOD generation seemed not to create any useful LOD at all: either for the trees or the rocks. I'm guessing the custom elements screwed up the LOD for the whole LOD group of cells.

Tes4qLOD didn't generate any useful LOD except for the Cottonwood. I used the Everything vwd switch on the command, but again, the custom elements must invalidate something.

TES4LODGen generated absolutely perfect LOD for both the trees and for the custom rock with the _far.nif - ignoring the vwd flag, exactly as advertised. Didn't seem to matter whether the spt and billboards were in the main folder or a subfolder.

So I'll be using TES4LODGen in future.

[Koniption]

Originally posted by morcroft
Hi Koniption

Thanks for looking into this - I followed up on your tests, and I think the actual solution is summed up by
" you run TesLODGen "

In the end I found that TES4LODGen actually handled the lower level folder OK for me - I originally said that was what I ran, but edited it later to Tes4qlod, which is what I did use: sorry if this misled you.

I ran a whole series of tests, with the spt and billboard files in both locations, using the CS, Tes4qlod and TES4LODGen

I used a cleaned out worldspace with:
Row of trees: 3 x MD trees + cottonwood
4 x rock1400 - the GF version + a retex for which I created a _far.nif - one pair with VWD ticked other not.

Here's how it seems to behave:

The CS LOD generation seemed not to create any useful LOD at all: either for the trees or the rocks. I'm guessing the custom elements screwed up the LOD for the whole LOD group of cells.

Tes4qLOD didn't generate any useful LOD except for the Cottonwood. I used the Everything vwd switch on the command, but again, the custom elements must invalidate something.

TES4LODGen generated absolutely perfect LOD for both the trees and for the custom rock with the _far.nif - ignoring the vwd flag, exactly as advertised. Didn't seem to matter whether the spt and billboards were in the main folder or a subfolder.

So I'll be using TES4LODGen in future.

Hi Morcroft,

Yeah, you did mislead me when you wrote that you already tried TesLODGen, heheh. I was thinking "If he already tried that program, then some other factor must be screwing things up."

But I did come across some differences in behavior when testing with and without the "middleman" folder(s), and when one has not run TesLODGen yet - my explanation below also sums up why I thought a "middleman" folder was to blame. You also might find the below, interesting.

I'm gonna use the folder paths of the Live Oaks that you made for BM as an example:

If spt in "Data\trees\bm\*.spt" AND
If billboard textures in "Data\textures\trees\billboards\bm\*.dds" THEN..

...the live oak is not visible until player gets close enough, upon which it suddenly pops into view. Once close to see it, then when going further from it, the tree goes to billboard mode, the billboard which then quickly disappears the further you keep going away from the tree so that nothing is visible at all. In other words, the billboard only lasts a short "distance amount" as you go further from the live oak.
...........

If spt in "Data\trees\*.spt" AND
If billboard textures in "Data\textures\trees\billboards\*.dds" THEN...

...again, live oak is not visible until player is close enough, upon which it pops into view. Once close to see it, then when going further away from it, the tree goes to billboard mode...but, this time the billboard is visible for a lot longer "distance amount" as you go further from the tree, until the billboard suddenly disappears and nothing is visible at all.

So, I thought I was getting closer to the truth by deleting the "middleman" folders, because the billboard stayed visible for a lot longer. It was after that, that I tried TesLODGen, to see if it would bridge the gap in my results, which it succeeded.

I saw this behavior through two ingame playthroughs, upon which I switched out using or not using "middleman" folders - one or the other for each playthrough. So I haven't doublechecked if I can replicate the behavior of middleman folders vs no middleman folders.

Koniption