Skyrim Lore

[Silver Alchemist]

I can't find answers for this anywhere, and probably won't until 11.11.11, but what do people believe when it comes to Alduin in TESV.
Acording to the lore Alduin is the Nordic version of Akatosh, but the Nordic portrayal of him only superficialy resembles Akatosh in that he is a Dragon God. However, despite Akatosh only creating time for Mundus and not taking direct action in the creation of Nirn itself, I hardly believe he would want to destroy and remake it. Not only that, TESV revealed lore says the Oblivion crisis allowed Alduin to return to Nirn. Akatosh shouldn't have needed the Oblivion crisis to apear as there was no barrier between Mundus and Aetherius, as far as we know. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that Alduin and Akatosh are seperate entities that the empire has ignorantly assumed to be the same to make sense of the Nordic pantheon. This might also mean that Alduin is an Aedra possibly aligned with Anu or just different like Lorkhan (the definitions of Aedra and Daedra are sketchy, in some cases they are the same type of beings but are defined by being alligned with Padomay or Anu, in other cases they are different beings that can be alligned either way). This might explain Alduin's Dragon assault but preserve Akatosh's status. I'm a Lore fanatic so I'm eager to here your oppinions on this.

Also, any ideas how Alduin was banished as I have no theories on that except divine intervention.
I also believe that the weak Cyrodiilic Empire should be abandoned and a new Empire forged by a Skyrim united and strengthened by war should take its place, Do you?
Either way, Secede or Remain, the Dark Ages of Tamriel have come. (Is that dramatic or what!)

[Deeza]

Aldiun really is Akatosh, but he's also Auriel, and several other gods... And I don't mean there's just one spirit the different cultures call different names, I mean he actually is about 8 separate beings.

How should I explain this? You've played Shivering Isles, right? Sheogorath is the Prince of Madness, but he's also Jyggalag the Prince of Order. But he's also not quite either of them, because a mortal can become him as well by becoming king of his Plane.

This is the point at which the ES pantheon starts to get really weird. The best way to think of it is that Tamriel's reality is rather unstable (as TES4's plot made clear). What actually holds it together and stops it collapsing into Oblivion, now that Lorkhan's Heart is gone, is Crystal Tower in Summerset Isles, a giant world-tree in Valenwood, a mountain in Skyrim, a crashed spaceship at the bottom of Iliac Bay and the combined activity of all the Skooma hallucinations in the world (I told you it got really weird). Basically it's the metaphysical equivalent of being held together by bits of sticky-tape and string.

All it takes is a magical kick in the right place and bits of reality break off and come back together in a new order. It notoriously happens whenever anyone switches on Numidium (the giant robot from the end of TES2). It even happened once when someone danced the wrong way on top of White-Gold Tower.

The upshot is, multiple versions of history can coexist in Tamriel, and Akatosh is particularly badly affected by this because he's the god of time, so he splits apart whenever history gets rewritten. So whilst the Imperial version of Akatosh (which was created during the Tower-dancing incident 2000 years ago) saved the world in Oblivion, the Nordic version Alduin (which is much older) intends to eat it...

If you want to find out more about Alduin and Akatosh, I can recommend these links:
http://www.imperial-library.info/content...-aldudagga
http://www.imperial-library.info/content...t-letter-4
They're not official in-game books, but they're written by the guy who wrote a lot of the backstory for Morrowind and are considered canon by most people.

Edit:

The difference between the Aedra and the Daedra are that the Aedra are dead. Of course, because they're gods, that doesn't have quite the same meaning as it does for mortals - they're still around, they're just not what they once were. However it does explain why they seem to be so weak relative to the Daedra, and why they intervene in the world so rarely. They're stuck in this state because giving up their divine spark is what keeps the world in existence. The Daedra are the same kind of spirit, but they didn't want part of the world and so each of them created their own. The problem is, nothing in their planes has an existence apart from them, so nothing ever changes. That's why they always want the souls of mortals, because they find the mortal world so much more interesting.

[Silver Alchemist]

Bethesda's answer to choose-how-you-play lore, make it all happen, The warp in the west is just the most well known...
(Awesome solution!!!)

The stickytape thing, good analogy, I can't believe I forgot the developers letters, haven't read those skooma ramblings in a while. I always thought the Aedra that became the earthbones were completely consumed when they became "stuff", while the other Aedra were weakened in maintaining the world (the divines and all the others) and that when these "events" happen (who will get that reference?) a new spirit was being created from reality being sheared and Aedra spirits being twisted, which is how Talos, Vehk, Ayem, Seht, Dagoth Ur, King of Worms and possibly Martin acheived divinity (Talos and KoW interfacing with Numidium, AlmSiVi and Dagoth Ur with Lorkhans Heart, which would've split the fragment of Lorkhans remaining spirit after being sheared into Jone and Jode, and Martin with the blood of an Aedra no less, infact, applying your information he may well be his own Akatosh now). If you take the end of oblivion into acount, would it mean that Martin has attained divinity and lost it to become Earthbone like to seal the Daedric Prince's away permanetly. Leaving those special spots to be nexus's of the barrier, until a TES plot tears it down again. I don't know, that was just my previous thinking, I prefer geographical and historical (>1st Era) Lore to mythological Lore, as I always thought Akatosh was the original and other representations of him were other Aedra (Alduin) or the same being, different interprtation (Auriel), and that other, created Divinities were embodied splits of originals. Re-thinking it, I'd say either Auriel is the original or he doesn't exist in that form anymore. Either way the two are seperate beings now, unless Akatosh is actualy crazy, he wouldn't be the first insane Dragon-God (another reference).

All that time-warping aside (Akatosh must hate that song), I'm still curious about the last two questions, especialy how Alduin was banished. I now think he helped banish himself (Akatosh did it), any other theories?

Oh, thanks for the info Deeza, sorry you had to wade through that to get here.

Ps. I thought the Adamantine tower was the spaceship.

[Deeza]

My first thought was that it might be a cyclical thing like the Graymarch in SI (Alduin banishes his destructive aspect when he establishes the convention and becomes the mortal god Akatosh, but it works its way back in at the end of every world and destroys it, which reunites his parts and allows him to do it again). However, I then thought that might be too similar to the Shivering Isles plot, and it might be something more complicated.

The impression you get from the Aldudagga is that Nirn has a cyclical cosmology not wholly unlike the Hindu/buddhist cycles of the ages, when the mortal world keeps being made and destroyed again (but is never quite the same each time round). However, if the past games are anything to go by that'll only be one version of the story.

Edit:

You're right. It is the spaceship, though it doesn't look like one.

[jucklesjenk]

I thought that they were the same thing. It's simply called Alduin in this game because it's set in Skyrim, so it uses the Nordic name.

Also,

...Akatosh only creating time for Mundus and not taking direct action in the creation of Nirn itself, I hardly believe he would want to destroy and remake i

Since he is the god of time and 'created' time he is therefore the one to destroy time as well. This is also mentioned in UESPWiki, and I'm sure it is partly a case of what Deeza described, like the Greymarch so it is simply a different perspective of the same thing as well.

[Deeza]

What really interests me is that in the Aldudagga, Alduin mentions that if he were to fail to eat each version of the world in time, then something even worse would happen. It could be just a throwaway line, of course, but I hope they develop that further...

[Lady Nerevar]

What is worse for gods may not be worse for men.

[Deeza]

Of course. But that just makes it all even more interesting...

[Piehammer :P]

In relation to how Alduin was defeated the first time, I seem to remember reading that he was banished from the mortal realm by King Wulfhareth who was a powerful Tongue (user of the Thu'um) who used his Voice to shout the ghost of Shor (the main god of the Nords) into the world to do battle with him. Though I'm not certain.

[Deeza]

Well, I guess it would sort of make sense if that was true. Shor/Lorkhan/Padomay and Alduin/Akatosh/Anu have been locked in a delicate little dance since the creation of the world, the one never quite overcoming the other, so I suppose if anything could counteract Alduin it would be that.