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+---- Thread: Establishment Signs (/Thread-Establishment-Signs)
- Ibsen's Ghost - 09-11-2010
Quote:Originally posted by Xaeaix
This establishment has a sign even though it's illegal? Does it pretend to be a legal shop in any way that's relevant to the design of its sign?
The sale of skooma in BM is legal or, at least, the guards care so little about it that they allow Otiak to operate. Strictly speaking, the sale of Hist sap is illegal but Otiak brings in foreign visitors (and money) so the guards just turn a blind eye.
Quote:I assume the sign should look just like it would if they were actually import/export traders. What does "self-styled" mean in this regard?
It means they profess to be 'professional mercenaries' when in fact their morals are a whole lot looser and they will take liberties with the (often naval) assignments they are given i.e. raping, looting and whatever else they feel like doing. In other words, the mercenary thing is just a cover when they are in fact pirates who can be hired for tasks. Referring to themselves as mercenaries means they can take up residence in Soulrest with impunity.
Quote:Is this meant to be "Soulrest Port Authority"?
Yes. :yes:
Quote:Also, should the Sotho Tren manor have a sign? Tren Manor, perhaps?
Quote:I need to know what to write on the sign for this. Also, suggestions for an icon would be appreciated. I seem to recall them being bandits or assassins, but someone who really knows their lore should know better what would resemble them.
It's a case in point. I was hoping I could get someone else's opinion on it. The Tren are the principal force in the criminal underworld of BM. They are one of our major Factions and act as a sort of expanded 'Thieves Guild' to become more of a mafia-style organisation which leads to quests that are more varied than mere thievery.
I would go for a sign just in case. We'll probably have need of it. The name 'House of Tren' sounds best to me. As for the icon, SoK created one here: Banners . The first picture is designed with the Tren in mind. The other two were for the Khanaten Liberation Army and the city of Gideon respectively. Take a look at my OP on this thread for suggestions on other icons.
- Xae - 10-18-2010
All right, there's now one texture for each sign. Thumbnails and direct links to full-size png previews in the OP (it's a wonderful fat blob of code). Download link to the nif's and dds's under the thumbnails.
As for the Sotho Tren sign, I tried something that I'm not fully convinced I like; a large slab of rough cloth has been stapled to the sign, the wood's been painted black and a tear in the fabric reveals "Sotho Tren" in embossed silver lettering. It really sets it apart from all the other signs and doesn't reveal much about the establishment, other than that it doesn't care much for having an explanatory sign.
All the signs (textures, normal maps and meshes combined) reach ~7Mb. Is it correct that there needs to be a mesh for every single one? I would've thought that a lot of space could be saved by editing a texture variable in the CS. In any case, there might be some technical stuff that I'm unaware of so someone should probably take a quick look at these before they're stuffed into the bsa (in case none of the sign textures need revising, that is)
Edit: Changed some wording that gave a false impression.
- Ibsen's Ghost - 10-18-2010
I'm so lovin' the signs! :goodjob:
Got the thumbs. Not so sure about how to apply the textures though. Do I just need to convert them to .dds files? Looking at them here, it looks like they're screenshots of the signs rather than the actual texture files themselves. The worrying thing is that I can't seem to find KP's sign mesh anywhere. I may have mistakenly deleted it.... ?( This means I haven't been able to test any .dds file on the mesh.
I'd have liked to have tested the Sotho Tren one, particularly. I like the idea. It just depends on whether it works with the surrounding textures and design.
KP is on a break now so I'll see if I can find the file elsewhere. Otherwise, she tends to keep her files....unless you have a copy of it...?
- Koniption - 10-19-2010
Quote:Originally posted by Ibsen's Ghost
I'm so lovin' the signs! :goodjob:
Got the thumbs. Not so sure about how to apply the textures though. Do I just need to convert them to .dds files? Looking at them here, it looks like they're screenshots of the signs rather than the actual texture files themselves. The worrying thing is that I can't seem to find KP's sign mesh anywhere. I may have mistakenly deleted it.... ?( This means I haven't been able to test any .dds file on the mesh.
I'd have liked to have tested the Sotho Tren one, particularly. I like the idea. It just depends on whether it works with the surrounding textures and design.
KP is on a break now so I'll see if I can find the file elsewhere. Otherwise, she tends to keep her files....unless you have a copy of it...?
@ Xae : Ibsen is right - your thumbnail links in the OP to the soulrest sign pics will not work as textures. For one, they are the wrong resolution: the text below each pic says something like "512 x 512 pixels".....but that is not what the pics are. A 512 x 512 pixel picture is perfectly square, while your pics are rectangular. Also, they are in a format that is not dds format (but that is easily fixed by an image converting program, like GIMP or Photoshop).
Xae, can you upload the Soulrest sign meshes that you retextured, and the texture files you used in the nif to make the readable sign part for each different establishment? I'll take a look at the files, when I get off break, and maybe even before then. Yeah, each different establishment needs a differently textured sign mesh nif (to answer your earlier question), because the readable part on each sign will be different for each establishment....., HOWEVER ......:
@ Ibsen and Xae (and whoever):
First option - a little more involved than second option:
Technically, however, I could break the sign mesh into two nifs: one nif for the metal piece, and a separate nif for the actual readable wood part. That way, only one nif of the metal part needs to be used in the archive and the CS (saves on space since that is the bigger nif file in size), while the much smaller filesize readable wooden part is the only part that needs multiple nifs since each will use a different establishments' texture. You can easily align the two different sign parts together, to make a completed sign, by giving each of the two halves the same XYZ coordinates and rotation values in the render window, by doubleclicking on each in render window.
Basically, first align the metal nif part to each building in render window, then drop the actual wooden nif part into the render window, and give it the same coordinates as the metal part that is attached to the proper establishment for that readable wooden part. It's a little more work, but not hard to do. And you'll only have to align everything once, because you can drag a box around both halves later, to move them in sync in render window, if need be.
Second option - the easiest way, though not tried by me yet:
Also, it *might* be easier to use "Snap to Grid" option, once the sign is separated into two halves, by clicking on the wooden part, going to "Snap to Grid" button's settings, and clicking on that part that says something like "Snap to object.."..then selecting the metal part in the render window that you want that particular wooden sign half to be aligned to. Hopefully, that wooden sign piece will "jump" to the selected metal piece and be automatically aligned to it properly.
@ Ibsen - Do you want me to separate the sign into two halves, like I mentioned above? It WILL save space in the archive. And it might turn out to be easy to connect the two halves together in render window, using the second option idea. If so, I'll wait for Xae to upload the files, first.
Koniption
- Xae - 10-19-2010
These are not dds files, obviously. The pictures available in the OP are just png previews. I was just waiting for a word from Ibsen in case I needed to redo something straight away. Anyway, I've added a download link to the OP, and here, for convenience.
- Koniption - 10-19-2010
Quote:Originally posted by Xae
These are not dds files, obviously. The pictures available in the OP are just png previews. I was just waiting for a word from Ibsen in case I needed to redo something straight away. Anyway, I've added a download link to the OP, and here, for convenience.
@ Xae - Gotcha. I've downloaded the file.
@ Ibsen - if I separate the wooden oval part from the Soulrest sign's metal framing, so that there are two different sign nif pieces, and so that the wooden oval is the only one that needs to be retextured/duplicated...I'm estimating about 1 MB can be trimmed from Xae's overall Soulrest download filesize of 6.5 MB....do you think it's worth that?
Koniption
- Ibsen's Ghost - 10-20-2010
Oh, I thought it would reduce it more than that, actually. I'd agree that the two separate meshes idea is probably best though. I had actually thought of this idea at work earlier today (tut tut...my mind was wandering) but I'd thought that if we use the whole sign mesh plus an oval-shaped mesh that is very thin to the point of being 2D, like the cobweb meshes are, then it should severely reduce the filesize. From what I remember, the sign part of the mesh is surrounded by a raised 'lip' around the oval that would make the two meshes merge together seamlessly. However, I could be wrong there.
Anyway, I don't mind assembling the two pieces together as it wouldn't be a hassle at all. Then again, the idea of having a 'snap-to-object' option would make things especially easy.
Suffice to say that reducing the filesize of these 'used-once-only' models would help any way we can manage it...
@ Xae - Thanks for the sign textures! Lovely stuff!
@ both KP and Xae - I'm still missing the SoulrestSignSymbols01 and SoulrestSignSymbols04 textures from the KPTest folder. I have everything else but seem to be missing those. Could you send them along, please? Then once I've got the bits and pieces, I'll just put them all in place....shouldn't take long to do that. =)
- Koniption - 10-20-2010
I sent the missing texture to you via PM, IG. I also divided the sign in half, and sent those tweaked files.
Thanks for your tweaks and work, Xae! It's appreciated. The signs look smashing!
KP
- Xae - 10-23-2010
Well, pending Ibsen's word on the Sotho Tren sign, that does it for Soulrest. I'm glad you like the textures so far. I'll be shifting to the Gideon signs next. I've already made a few of them (there'll be a thumbnail-link blob like with the Soulrest signs shortly) but I'm going to revise the colour scheme and bring back the pale and silver from the original template instead of the muddy gold I ended up using. I like the dark-silver contrast from the Angel Voyage sign which also increases readability. This in addition to some other minor tweaks, surely. More on this later.
Now, I had a few thoughts on the names of the Gideon establishments:
Marshland Glow Inn:
This one works but I figure that something like Smiling/Scowling Owl would work better thematically. Angel Voyage sounds nice but hell, this is Gideon.
Trelaan Ashheart, Undertaker & Crematorium:
I abbreviated this to Ashheart Crematorium so that it could fit on the sign. With the full text, there'd be no room for the symbol. This could work, however, if I used some kind of text ornamentation.
Cold Blood, Hot Steel:
I changed this to Hellion Armaments because it's more concise and less of a cliché.
Gideon Fighters Guild:
From what I recall, we decided to make a single sign for all the FGs. Whether this was with its own mesh or not I can't remember but given that it'll need its own nif anyway, I vote for a unique mesh for the FG and one for the MG so they stand out from the city-specific establishments.
Mages Seminary:
I'm not 100% on what this is. I'm assuming it's not the MG. Also, is it "Mages Seminary", "Mage's Seminary" or "Mages' Seminary"? I feel as though this question is relevant to the FG and MG, as well, in terms of what is linguistically correct.
(M')Tassar's Tricksy Trinkets:
I question the "M'" in the name because although it sounds more exotic it's also encumbering to say.
- Ibsen's Ghost - 10-23-2010
Okay, here's my thoughts:
- Marshland Glow - Not so sure about the 'Scowling Owl' which is the one I prefer of the two. I'm fine with it as it is but has anyone got any other suggestions?
- Ashheart Crematorum - Good call. Trelaan's brother is in charge of the Sepulchre so it makes sense that both of them help each other out and run it as a family business.
- Cold Blood, Hot Steel - A little cliched, maybe but I like the Argonian connotation. I guess I could go with Hellion Armaments nonetheless.
- Gideon Fighters' Guild - You mean have a totally unique mesh independent of the city but used repeatedly for all Guild buildings throughout BM? Yes, that certainly makes sense. :yes:
- Mages' Seminary - In consideration of the function of the Mages Guild in BM as principally a school of learning and a place for R & D, the term 'Mages' Seminary' fits with these ideas. Therefore, the Mages' Seminary IS the Mages Guild. Also, as the Seminary belongs to the mages (plural) then the apostrophe goes at the end after the 's': Mages' Seminary.
- M'Tasarr's Tricksy Trinkets - I'm happy with this one as it is. I'd keep it.