Claim: Khajiiti Ships

[Vintra]

Originally posted by morcroft
That's surprisingly low considering how good it looks. Check it in-game: you may need more polies and vertex shading to get over the less-than-brilliant game shading. You may have dealt with that already of course.

Doubling your polycount for collision sounds like you're overdoing it with detail. I'm not an expert, but it sounds like you're using a mopped triangle mesh which matches the boat in detail. That's OK if you really need it, but it's an unnecessary strain on the game engine if you don't. Try to keep the collision as simple as possible - you might be able to get away with a simple box for the hull, for example, which is easier to compute and less likely to get miscalculated. I've an idea mopps can be dodgy for surfaces you walk on.

If you want advice, talk to Koniption - she knows all there is to know about efficient use of collisions.

I don't know what you really mean. But i have pretty much experience in modelling.

Im just working with low poly. Collision works perfect too.

[morcroft]

Our posts crossed each other. Now I've seen the screenies I think you're right - well done!
:goodjob:

[Deeza]

That boat looks fantastic vintra! Are you planning to make any of the other ships?

[morcroft]

Vintra - I've now had a close look at your model - and it's beautiful. It will be a credit to the mod ... so don't take anything I've said above, or I'm about to say as being in any way negative: this is constructive criticism only!

The visible aspect of your model is faultless: I love it. But it's more than 648 polies: I make it 1184 excluding the collision. That's absolutely fine, and much more like what I would expect for a model this richly detailed. I think you've been misled by your modelling package, which is probably counting quads the same as triangles - I know Blender does this. To avoid getting confused by this, I try always to select each mesh in the model and convert faces to triangles (<Ctrl>T in Blender). The polycount you see will then match what gets exported to the NIF. I think.

I stick by some of my comments about the collision, though. The collision you've created is quite correct - but far more detailed than is necessary. Collision - especially mopped collision - is a major cause of game drag and even crashing. It's best to keep the collision as simple as possible.

You've used exactly the same mesh for the collision as for the boat itself - 1184 triangles. That works fine, but collision doesn't need that much detail, and it hurts performance.

It's not my model so you're entitled to tell me where I can stick my advice, but if it were my model, I would probably make these changes to the collision:

Expand the collision for the roof to match the thickness and size of the bamboo poles supporting it; and use that to replace the collision on the poles. That saves 448 tri's.

Replace the detailed two-cylinder collision at the bow with a simple box, or maybe a six-faced cylinder covering both poles. That saves about 60 faces with the box, or 50 with the hexagon. I'd probably go for the hexagon to stop things balancing unrealistically on top of the poles.

Alternatively, if you are using Blender, select the whole of the bow/side/stern/rudder collision assembly, edit the mesh and run mesh / scripts / poly reduce, with a setting of 0.5. That saved 244 tri's when I ran it, and the collision still hugs the model perfectly well.

With those changes, the collision would drop from 1184 triangles to 492, with no loss of game quality.

I hope you don't (too much) mind me dissecting your modelling like that but I think a little extra work could perfect an already excellent model.

[Vintra]

Originally posted by morcroft
Vintra - I've now had a close look at your model - and it's beautiful. It will be a credit to the mod ... so don't take anything I've said above, or I'm about to say as being in any way negative: this is constructive criticism only!

The visible aspect of your model is faultless: I love it. But it's more than 648 polies: I make it 1184 excluding the collision. That's absolutely fine, and much more like what I would expect for a model this richly detailed. I think you've been misled by your modelling package, which is probably counting quads the same as triangles - I know Blender does this. To avoid getting confused by this, I try always to select each mesh in the model and convert faces to triangles (<Ctrl>T in Blender). The polycount you see will then match what gets exported to the NIF. I think.

I stick by some of my comments about the collision, though. The collision you've created is quite correct - but far more detailed than is necessary. Collision - especially mopped collision - is a major cause of game drag and even crashing. It's best to keep the collision as simple as possible.

You've used exactly the same mesh for the collision as for the boat itself - 1184 triangles. That works fine, but collision doesn't need that much detail, and it hurts performance.

It's not my model so you're entitled to tell me where I can stick my advice, but if it were my model, I would probably make these changes to the collision:

Expand the collision for the roof to match the thickness and size of the bamboo poles supporting it; and use that to replace the collision on the poles. That saves 448 tri's.

Replace the detailed two-cylinder collision at the bow with a simple box, or maybe a six-faced cylinder covering both poles. That saves about 60 faces with the box, or 50 with the hexagon. I'd probably go for the hexagon to stop things balancing unrealistically on top of the poles.

Alternatively, if you are using Blender, select the whole of the bow/side/stern/rudder collision assembly, edit the mesh and run mesh / scripts / poly reduce, with a setting of 0.5. That saved 244 tri's when I ran it, and the collision still hugs the model perfectly well.

With those changes, the collision would drop from 1184 triangles to 492, with no loss of game quality.

I hope you don't (too much) mind me dissecting your modelling like that but I think a little extra work could perfect an already excellent model.

No, no its okay friend. You are absolutely right!

The collisions are really not the most simple, but it has a reason.
Because without collision the mesh had 600-700 poly, which is really low.
So i've decided to give a good quality collision, which also improves some poly.

But your ideas are great, but i don't really know how to do these.
Would you do this for me, please?

You look like more experienced than me, and it is really good.
Please don't think you've hurt me, and i said you can stick your advice to somewhere. No, of course not!
Im glad for your advice. We must work together, and that's really good.

Glad you like it anyway!

Deeza:
Thanks mate, glad you like it too!

Well, it was fun to make, so i think yes. I'll do another ship, but don't know which one, yet.

Vintra

[morcroft]

I'm really glad you're taking this in the spirit in which it's intended - and I'll make the collision changes if that's what you'd like. I don't think I am more experienced - I've just picked up on different things.

By the way - I've just discussed collision with TOYB - and he says 100-poly is about as high as you'd want to go with a model this size! I'm off to check some of my models!

I don't understand what you mean by "a good quality collision, which also improves some poly" - the collision won't improve the appearance of the model, and we want to keep the poly count down as far as possible.

Before you leave that model, can I make a request? Would you make a wrecked version, please? I don't know if it will be needed, but from the work on reefs I've been doing over at Valenwood I've realised there's a lack of good wreck models.

I don't mean to take this model over to Valenwood: it belongs in Elsweyr, but when we come to landscaping there's nothing like a few good wrecks to add interest to a coastline!

In fact, I wonder if we should make it a standing request to ship modellers always to make a wrecked version?

[Vintra]

Originally posted by morcroft
I'm really glad you're taking this in the spirit in which it's intended - and I'll make the collision changes if that's what you'd like. I don't think I am more experienced - I've just picked up on different things.

By the way - I've just discussed collision with TOYB - and he says 100-poly is about as high as you'd want to go with a model this size! I'm off to check some of my models!

I don't understand what you mean by "a good quality collision, which also improves some poly" - the collision won't improve the appearance of the model, and we want to keep the poly count down as far as possible.

Before you leave that model, can I make a request? Would you make a wrecked version, please? I don't know if it will be needed, but from the work on reefs I've been doing over at Valenwood I've realised there's a lack of good wreck models.

I don't mean to take this model over to Valenwood: it belongs in Elsweyr, but when we come to landscaping there's nothing like a few good wrecks to add interest to a coastline!

In fact, I wonder if we should make it a standing request to ship modellers always to make a wrecked version?

That's actually an awesome idea, i'll do it today!
And yes, please do the collision thingy! Thanks man.

Vintra

[Vintra]

Screenshots! Hope its good.

[Ja-Kha'jay]

Oh my god Vintra, those are astonishingly amazing!
absolutely breathtaking. Wow! Inspiring too.
Keep up the fantastic work matey! Awesome!

[Vintra]

Thanks, Ja-Kha'jay. Glad you like it!

Oh and Ja-Kha'jay: Im working on Sarpa Architecture for Black Marshes, actually. As i finish it, i go to claim an architecture set for a major city in Elsweyr. Which one i can claim?

I've already post to Riverhold thread. If Riverhold is not available, then other good too. It doesn't matter.


Thanks again for these inspiring words!
Vintra