Cyrodiil

[Rincewind]

If the projects use thair own worldspace, scaling shouldn't be a problem. You could still use the old MW scaling. By traveling between the two worldspaces, you also travel between the two scalled world parts.

my poor english

[wilting]

I suggested this a while ago on the general ES modding section here and on the official forums without much reaction.

EDIT: Whoops, didn't see those responses I got, have been very busy of late with college stuff. Great to see people gettin interested in this idea!

Anyway, it's pitched here much better than I could have. Great to see people thinking along the same lines as I was.

I've been collecting info and putting together some maps with ideas for new settlements (I made up names for like 40 settlements), roads etc, but thats more extreme long term. I don't know a great deal about small settlements, dungeons, forts etc as the currently exist in Oblivion so I can only do so much.

I'll put up my info here if anyone would like, I've been monitoring lore discussions for ideas too, so I have lots of ideas ranging from the smallest and simplest to the grander, the overall goal being more depth to the province as a whole. The map I have is very rough, might spruce it up a bit...

I've been toying with various ideas for adding depth to the province, much of which individuals modders are taking up on their own ( I have lists of potential factions and other various bits and pieces - but its mostly fairly obvious stuff).

I think the landmass change would be a good first step, there's a practical long term benefit in terms of other provinces and it provides a base to build up from.

I was thinking of a division between the Colovian and Nibenay regions as possible seperate world spaces. Alternatively perhaps each county could be made into a seperate world space, and another for the Imperial City as well. It would allow a great deal of freedom, but there's no point in making it TOO big.

EDIT: Hmm I've been thinking about how this could be something for people across the community to get involved in and think it might be a good idea to compile a list of ideas for improving Cyrodiil for people to run with in their own time if they feel free. I'd be happy to get cracking on this if I can find the time, as I already stated I already have some stuff done.

Incidentally the title of the folder where I keep all my stuff related to this is called Cyrodiil Reimagined, but I also like Cyrodiil: The Imperial Province (CIP or CTIP for short)

[Garrett]

YES! The idea is finally getting some serious thought!

Doing towns first is a must; things like Balmora Expansion and Suran Underworld were widely popular, so this is a quick way to gain attention.

I think each town should be a separate ESP even after other ones are made. That way if someone loooooves a particular mod they can keep its town(s) unaltered. This will also lessen some of the "zomg ur killing modding you bastids!!1!" comments. Much like omods, the goal of this boils down to modders eventually being forced to switch over or else be ignored.

As for town features, I think fully-fledged banks would be a big-hitter to help encourage both contributions and upgrading. Someone already made a nice banking mod but last I read it was just a guy in the market square rather than actual buildings. I'd like to see all of Indybank's features return (and then some), as well as private vaults in the basement connected to burglary missions. Or even just generic people. Imagine pickpocketing the richest guy in town and ending up with a vault key--SWEET! Tying the new things into the game as much as possible is ideal.

The first thing to do is sort out a list of what order to do the towns in. After that comes feature lists for each of what it needs (a brewery? A blacksmith? A brothel? etc.). The final decision on scaling the exterior can probably come later after the re-scaling has been carefully looked into. The most important thing is to give modders something they WANT to help mod, and that's cities.

You've obviously spent time thinking about the new scale and everything. :goodjob:

EDIT: as for a multi-worldspace province, I don't think it's good to bite off more than anyone can chew. And if you went for an absolutely huge scale (one worldspace per county) there would be endless miles of samey nothingness for many months. If anything, I'd say go with the +33% now, and when that's done and successful THEN work on the "XXL Daggerfall-scale Cyrodiil!!!"

EDIT 2: as for a name, I definitely don't like "Cyrodiil: The Imperial Province". The name is confusing. It already IS the Imperial province, so there's no real indication of what is actually different. My idea would be to go with a self-explanatory name like Cyrodiil Reborn.

[wilting]

I'm going to compile all my ideas and all other ideas I've seen and post new thread with them all at the top for people to see that can be updated as required. Might take a while, not sure what state all the info I've been gathering is in..

[Vrenir]

I was thinking Cyrodic ReScaled (CRS for short), but Reborn has a nice ring to it.

On less of a pretentious note than naming our yet non-existent mod...

I would like to reiterate what Sigfried stressed earlier, and that is DON'T EMBELISH YET. Long term plans are great, and I'd love to see banks and such, but the initial stuff needs to be a precision operation. If we spend years on this mod, it will be great, but it will be too late to be effective as a base for others. So, here's what I think needs to be done now:

1) Sigfried mentioned rescaling the hightmap. Can someone investigate this possibility? If it's workable, that could save a lot of time. [If it's workable, go route _a. If not, go route _b.]

2a) Assuming that the hightmap rescale works, we need someone to redraw the landscape map cell-by-cell as a guide for our modders. We know approximately where the cities will fall, but we need to see what landmarks should fall where on the new map and how the roads should go.

3a) With the map of the map, we need someone (probably our most skilled landscape editor) to begin full-scale cell production. The reason that I say "someone" singular is that nobody yet has the ability to merge esps, so our worldspaces currently must be done by one person each. When the merging program comes out, hopefully soon, we can divy up the tasks and pick up the pace.

4a) While the landscaping is being done by one person, we can also divy up the city renovation mods, and maybe even a couple of new settlements. Of course, all of this depends on what our new map plan looks like and what spots are most opportune. Again, each of these for the time being must be one-man projects, so we'll need to be judicious about what we choose to do (not bite off more than we can handle).

5a) Release several versions of the mod. The landscape rescale by itself should be available for people who don't want any other changes. If we have city expansions or new settlements, those can either be individual plugins or contained in a larger merged file (again depending on merger capabilities).

2b) Without the hightmap rescale, we should shift gears to focus first on the city interiors like I mentioned in the first post. Follow the ideas in 4a.

3b) Simultanious with the city modding, have dedicated hightmap workers. As soon as the map is completed, begin work on it as outlined in steps 1a-3a.

The basic idea is that the landscape needs to be done, and it'd be great if it could be easy and quick. If it's not though, we need to put other releasables at top priority. Even with cities taking precedence, however, we need to keep working on the map, because that is the part of the mod that will most benefit the larger community and present opportunities for future expansion ideas.

So, while keeping in mind all the wonderful things that we can do with the new mod like banks and guilds, please let's focus on first things first. We need people to take on the initial work: Hightmap and map recharting by cell specifically. Posting sketches or mock-ups of improved city layouts that cause minimum incompatibilities would also be ideal for people to work on.

Again, thanks for the support and interest. Let's make this thing happen!

[wilting]

Reborn sounds good.

You make a good point, I'll keep working on the list though.

Unfortunately my TECS modding experience is nil and I won't have a copy of Oblivion for months until I get a new PC, but I would like to assist in any way I can until I can do some hands on modding.

I think it would be good if all the features were compatable with the original Cyrodiil map, although that could be a lot of work.

I've included a *very basic* Cyrodiil concept map below (I did it when I should have been working on assignments).

The Cyrodiil map was rather simple to make, basically I consulted all the maps I could find of the province and added all the roads as they were depicted on each map (The same road might appear in a quite different way). I then placed settlements where they had been previously listed and at road intersections, following by a little manipulation to improve things a bit.

I know it's not very clear, hopefully I'll do a proper one soon, it was hand drawn, scanned and then fiddled with in paint.

The black circles represent the cities we know.
The hollow circles represent towns, in the west these previously featued on maps, the two in the east are entirely new.
The squares represent villages (I imagined them as small settlements with wodden walls - as oppossed to the little gatherings of buildings that I understand Oblivion has).

There are 30+ villages in all. I have names for 99% of them, but they are not very original.

You'll notice five such villages just west of the Imperial city clustered very close together. They would form a kind of village metropolis. I was thinking of calling it Cinatch (derived from cinq for five - an elven originated name might be better) and giving each village a name based upon the human provinces plus Atmora.

You can see that the Imperial city has gotten something of a shake up. I have various ideas for this including racial districts (including "Akaviri") and all kinds of building, guilds and quests and have a more detailed hand drawn map. But I won't go into that now. Anyone can have a good idea.

The thickest lines represent highways, the middle paved roads, and the thinnest dirt roads. I know they should be colour coded, I'll get around to it soon.

[Vrenir]

Interesting stuff, Wilting. I like the circles, hollow circles, boxes code. It gives us an idea of what we might want to leave room for and what priority level it ought to be. For instance, perhaps if we have people start on new towns, we can add in some of the remote hollow circles like the two in the eastern empty part of the province. I also really am fond of the small cluster of villages, the Cinatch you called it. (Nice catchy name by the way and good with other Cyrodiil names like Kvatch.)

What we really do need asap though is something like this map done with the terrain planned out. Basically, a compiled map of what the game map/landscape will look like under the new system, with a cell grid.

So to count, so far we have Sigfried and Garret as modders with Oblivion running?

[shunoshi]

Wowsers, this sounds at first glance like one hell of an undertaking, but at the same time almost seems doable. I haven't messed around with landscape building yet, but I've started city modding with Reich Parkeep. I'm planning on working with the Skyrim team as well, but like stated earlier, there isn't really any progress being made in the outer provinces because of this very problem....oh....and the whole esp merging issue

I think I can swing working Reich Parkeep and lending a hand with this "Cyrodiil Reborn" should you all give it the green light. Sounds like a worthy endevour, especially if other modding communities could benefit from it. :goodjob:

[wilting]

I only have access to good old MS paint but I'll see what kind of a map I can rustle up. Trouble is I don't really know how that map works in the context of Oblivion, I only know the major cities locations and a couple of minor locations for that. A catalogue of all settlements, dungeons etc with their locations on a maop would be most heplful.

Cinatch just occurred because there are a few roads intersecting in that region. All the name's I did are derived from some idea I got from them, or some nearby geographical location and then combining with an existing name - some of the names are really nice and some sound lke some kind of disgusting disease.

Here's the full list, I'm not sure if it's up to date with the map, but it's close enough. I have some ideas about guilds and things to do with a couple of them, but essentially the details of most need to be worked out. Aside form some of the differentiation I'd like to see between Nibenay and the Colovian west, which is more generic. For some reason I failed to differentiate between the towns in the east location wise so I forget which is which, one is named after a lake/river I think (Corbelle) so I supppose it's the nearest to that.

NIBENAY SETTLEMENTS:

CAPITAL:

Imperial City

CITIES:

Bruma
Cheydinhal
Bravil
Leyawiin

TOWNS:

Corbelle
Nibendinhal


VILLAGES:

Cinatch (Five villages Central West of Lake Rumore; Cyrowiin, Hamdinhal, Skyvril, Highvil and Atmorrol, Connected to Imperial City)

Blutch (North-East Coast of Lake Rumore, North of Poppvril, East of Hearrol, Connected to Imperial City)
Poppvril (East Coast of Lake Rumore, South of Blutch, North of Nibinhal, Connected to Imperial City))
Hearrol (North-East Coast of Lake Rumore, East of Rumvil, West of Blutch, Connected to Imperial City)
Nibinhal (South-East Coast of Lake Rumore, South of Poppvril, Connected to Imperial City)
Rumvil (Central North Coast of Lake Rumore, West of Hearrol, Connected to Imperial City)
Paliil (South-East of Bruma, North of Rumvil, West of Higinhal)
Higinhal (East of Paliil, North of Hearrol)
Arrium (West of Chedinhal)
Rosma (Central South Coast of Lake Rumore)
Whidinhal (South of Rosma, North - West of Greendiil)
Greendiil (East of Lyninhal, South-East of Whidinhal, North ? West of Bravil)
Lyninhal (Nr Elsweyr border, South of Whindinhal, East of Greendiil)
Elsvril (Nr Elsweyr border, West of Nibenay River, Nr Topal Sea Coast)
Yerrol (East of Nibenay River, North of Bladinwiin, West of Marindhal)
Bladinwiin (East of Nibeny River, South of Yerrol, West of Marindhal)
Marindhal (Nr Black Marsh border, East of Yerrol and Blandinwiin, South-West of Blavil)
Blavil (Nr Black Marsh border, North-East of Marindhal)
Topinhal (Central West Coast of Topal Island, North of Lapemgrad)
Lapengrad (South Coast of Topal Island, South of Topinhal)





COLOVIAN SETTLEMENTS:


CITIES:

Anvil
Kvatch
Skingrad
Chorrol


TOWNS:

Sutch (South-West of Stondinhal, North-East of Brina Cross, North-West of Kvatch)
Brina Cross (South- West of Sutch, North of Anvil, East of Kvatch)
Dusok Moor (South-East of Kvatch, North of Thestril River)


VILLAGES:
Stirk (Central East Coast of Stirk Island)
Stondinhal (North-East of Sutch, South-West of Colowiin, West of Gretvril)
Colowiin (North-East of Stondinhal, West of Chorrol, Nr Hammerfell Border)
Gretvril (East of Stondinhal, South-West of Foratch)
Foratch (North-East of Gretvril, South-East of Chorrol)
Sancrol (North-East of Foratch, East of Torodiil)
Torodil (North-East of Chorrol, West of Sancrol, South-East of Renawiin)
Renawiin (North-West of Torodil, South-East of Hirdinhal)
Hirdinhal (Nr Hammerfell Border, North-West of Renawiin, North-East of Colowiin)
Thestgrad (East of Kvatch, West of Skingrad, South of Gretvril, North of Thestril River)

[Vrenir]

Alright. As a further inspiration for people in the Beyond Cyrodil/Silgrad community, allow me to present a conceptual map for the other Provincial worldspaces that could be built off of this system. Eventually, it could provide a guide for our other mods to work off of so that we cover the total space most efficiently.

Red=Cyrodiil (the maximum size allowed for a worldspace)

Grey = Vvardenfell (includes a large chunk of the mainland for future modding up for grabs)

Green = Skyrim (includes Solthestian as does Vvardenfell for whoever wants it)

Blue = Elswyr/Valenwood/Summerset Isle (Summerset Isle needs to move slightly to fit)

Yellow = The Black Marsh amd Southern Morrowind (allows Dres to be in the same map)

Teal = High Rock and Hammerfell (not yet in-process, but just for future availability)

All worldspace borders are along mountain ranges, coasts, or other areas that conveniently block the edges from view. Each also has a fair amount of overlap so that the exact borders could be drawn-in wherever is most desirable.