Ebb11 - Relneth's Repairs (Claimed, Finished)

[TheImperialDragon]

That's excellent. I'll review your interior when you're ready.

You can assign ownership to all objects within a cell through the Interior Data tab in the Cell Window.

Bonemold is preferable to orcish armour. I like your idea about Vares' bodyguard. I can add a simple AI package so that he visits Relneth's shop on the occasion, removes his armour, then puts it back on at the end.

I'll probably change his armour to Bonemold in my update ESP later, or at least make it less uniform.

[ImaJunryou]

So, if I assign the cell ownership to Relneth, and particular other items individually to his apprentice, everything will be owned by Relneth, except for those things marked specifically for Okan-Shei (his apprentice)?

Another thing, the current AI I have set up has Relneth running the shop in the morning, closing at noon, eating with Okan, then having Okan run the shop into the evening, while Relneth works at his various benches. I've yet to lock the front door yet, and I've also not sat around for a full day yet (want to get the dialogue and extra touches done first) to fully test the AI, but I foresee a problem. Relneth will close the shop at 12, and Okan-Shei and him will eat. Then, I have Okan-Shei reopening the shop, but since ownership can only be assigned to one NPC, I don't know how to get Okan-Shei to unlock the door without adding them to some specific custom faction and giving the door faction ownership (which seems like a lot of effort for something so small).

Are there any rules or guidelines about adding small factions willy-nilly like that, or is there a preferred alternative solution to this, or should I simply tweak the AI so Relneth is the only shop-keep?

One final thing (unless I come back for edits, as I tend to do...), is the exterior for Ebbedin path-gridded? Does it get a path-grid? I've never really worked with exteriors before, so I'm not sure... The reason I ask is that when Okan-Shei heads outside for his daily ingredient gathering he tends to wedge himself between the shop and the neighbor's shack -.- Should I keep Okan-Shei inside for now, or shall I have him wander into corners awkwardly and have his routine make more sense in future releases?

Edit: Can I have some items in Relneth's possession not show up in his To Buy list? He currently has all of the various broken pieces of armor in his workshop on sale to the highest bidder at the moment. =( Must I simply set such things to some random person's ownership (like the Cluttermonkey in Morrowind?) so that it is still illegal to steal it, but isn't available for purchase?

[TheImperialDragon]

Originally posted by ImaJunryou
So, if I assign the cell ownership to Relneth, and particular other items individually to his apprentice, everything will be owned by Relneth, except for those things marked specifically for Okan-Shei (his apprentice)?

That's how it would work.

Originally posted by ImaJunryou
Another thing, the current AI I have set up has Relneth running the shop in the morning, closing at noon, eating with Okan, then having Okan run the shop into the evening, while Relneth works at his various benches. I've yet to lock the front door yet, and I've also not sat around for a full day yet (want to get the dialogue and extra touches done first) to fully test the AI, but I foresee a problem. Relneth will close the shop at 12, and Okan-Shei and him will eat. Then, I have Okan-Shei reopening the shop, but since ownership can only be assigned to one NPC, I don't know how to get Okan-Shei to unlock the door without adding them to some specific custom faction and giving the door faction ownership (which seems like a lot of effort for something so small).

I think having Relneth as the only person to sell would be best, but if you want them both to sell goods, you could have a look at the Three Brothers Trade in the Imperial City for ideas.

Originally posted by ImaJunryou
Are there any rules or guidelines about adding small factions willy-nilly like that, or is there a preferred alternative solution to this, or should I simply tweak the AI so Relneth is the only shop-keep?

You can certainly do that, just make sure you follow the proper naming conventions for form IDs (StIjRelnethFaction, for example).

Originally posted by ImaJunryou
One final thing (unless I come back for edits, as I tend to do...), is the exterior for Ebbedin path-gridded? Does it get a path-grid? I've never really worked with exteriors before, so I'm not sure... The reason I ask is that when Okan-Shei heads outside for his daily ingredient gathering he tends to wedge himself between the shop and the neighbor's shack -.- Should I keep Okan-Shei inside for now, or shall I have him wander into corners awkwardly and have his routine make more sense in future releases?

The pathgrid isn't finished. If you want to work around that, back up your ESP and create a very simple temporary pathgrid for playtesting only. It should be easy enough to remove (so that it doesn't conflict with other edits) when you submit it.

Originally posted by ImaJunryou
Edit: Can I have some items in Relneth's possession not show up in his To Buy list? He currently has all of the various broken pieces of armor in his workshop on sale to the highest bidder at the moment. =( Must I simply set such things to some random person's ownership (like the Cluttermonkey in Morrowind?) so that it is still illegal to steal it, but isn't available for purchase?

If you set the value to 0, it should be fine. If not that, using your faction you should try setting the ownership to a higher rank than the NPC.

[ImaJunryou]

Ok, attached is the work in progress of Ebbedin 11, Relneth's Repairs.

A few notes:

There's a glass helmet in the storage room with a 100% chameleon enchantment on it at the moment. I use it for spying on the NPCs as they go through their AI packages, and neither it, nor its enchantment will be in the final plugin.

It isn't fully cluttered yet. I still have to add a few more things to Okan-Shei's room, and I want to get something near the fireplace.

When the NPCs head up the stairs, they often get caught on them. They make it eventually, but it is annoying. Also, they'll fall down the stairs and "blink" back up to get where they're going when crossing the room upstairs. This is especially evident when Relneth goes to eat his breakfast at 7am.

Neither of the NPCs have dialogue from me yet, just the default stuff.

I need to change the candle light to flicker, rather than stay constant like it does. I didn't do so the first time through, on accident, and haven't gotten around to it yet -_-

Now, I've a couple of questions.

If I hide in the shop, 2pm rolls around and Relneth locks the shop up. Okan-Shei comes back, and they eat lunch. At 3pm, Okan-Shei unlocks the door, and begins offering services. Everything seems to work great.

If, however, I stay outside during the same hours, Okan-Shei never gets around to unlocking the door at 3. If you break in after 3 he'll immediately unlock the door, and everything's peachy again.

The packages are laid out as such:

Relneth:
Wander/Services 9am for 5 hours (9am-2pm) <- At end of package, unlock doors.
Eat 2pm for 1 hour (2pm-3pm)
Use Book in study (from 3pm on, goes and ponders too, also sleeps)

Okan-Shei:
Gathers items: Flora outside 7am for 7 hours (7am-2pm)
Eat 2pm for 1 hour (2pm-3pm)
Wander/Services 3pm for 6 hours (3pm-9pm) <- Unlocks doors at start of package

So, do I just need to add the unlock doors to the end of Okan's eat package, or is there something else I can do to fix it? o.o

Also, any other questions or comments on the interior are welcome ^.^

[TheImperialDragon]

Sorry about the delay in getting the revision so far, I've been having a tough couple of days, and I just haven't gotten to it. I was able to have a quick look, and there needs to be unique dialogue for each of the NPCs (which would usually be a greeting, some text for an "Ebbedin" topic, and another topic of your making).

[ImaJunryou]

Sorry to hear about your week

Actually, as far as the dialogue goes, I've not started it yet. I was hoping for a word of advice on the AI, to get that squared away first. If I need to change the scheduling to make things work right, it'd tweak with what I have in mind for the dialogue.

So, no rush in looking at it, really, as this isn't the version I'm hoping to turn in for review

Right now, the two NPCs break for lunch at 2pm, until 3pm, and do a little changin' of the guard, where Relneth stops offering services, and Okan-Shei starts. If the player is in the shop during this shift at 3pm, everything is fine (save the little problem of trespassing...), things go off without a hitch (save the arrests), and it is business as usual (minus one customer...).

If the player isn't physically IN the shop during that shift, Okan-Shei never gets around to unlocking the doors to the shop(Relneth locks them at 2pm, for lunch). I've not attempted to leave Ebbedin and come back, see if that helps, but entering a different Ebbedin interior doesn't do the trick. Not that it would... Anyway, point is I don't know how to get Okan-Shei to unlock the door... He should, by all accounts.

So, I'm hoping there's some tip to be had in regards to getting Okan-Shei to open the doors at 3 without the player being inside the shop, or I'm gonna have to not lock the shop at 2, and simply insert some dialogue about how the shop isn't open for business as they're having lunch. It won't work out quit as well as I'd like, but it should still work out.

Ok. So! I'm gonna find a dialogue tutorial, start figuring out how to set that up, and if anyone has any idea about my little locked door issue, fantastic ^^

If not, I'll have a version with dialogue, some tweaked AI, and one less glass helmet with a 100% chameleon enchantment on it to upload in the near future ^_^



edit: Dialogue is coming along great! I'm enjoying the process of fleshing my two NPCs out =) A few questions as I go on, though.

First, dialogue MP3s. Should I not worry about adding the many silent MP3s to my review presentation, or is this something I should handle? I've not made them before, but I do know how to make them. Judging from what I've got so far, there may be many many of them (I'm really enjoying making the dialogue for this...), and I'm a bit concerned on file-size...

Second, quests... I am interested in setting up some things to give Okan-Shei and Relneth a few quests for the player (gather some ingredients from Cyrodiil for Okan-Shei, for example, or resupply Relneth with more repair hammers, lets say...). I can keep them simple and make them 'Bring X number of Y back' sorta quests, but I was considering doing some slightly more complex things, such as having some conversations with NPCs in Cyrodiil. I don't know if that's alright or not, though... Nothing out of place with the feel of Ebbedin, mind you. Okan-Shei wasn't born and raised in Ebbedin, and simply has some contacts in Cyrodiil that could help in his alchemy hobby. Relneth might want to try and set up some sort of supply line to Reich Parkeep, or Anvil, so he can get something better than old iron and steel merchandise from time to time. Small things like that. Any guidelines?

[TheImperialDragon]

I'm glad you're having fun.

The lock sounds like something I've experienced several times during the main game in the Imperial City Market District. What happens if you activate the door when it's supposed to be unlocked, but isn't? Do you see the minigame?

Don't worry about the voice files. If you record voice files, just post 'em, and we'll get them to work in-game. If not, we'll have silent audio files generated for your claim.

Any quests you could do would be greatly appreciated. =) Quests should only affect our main landmass so there are no conflicts with the main game (ESMs can have that problem if care is not taken) or other mods. Make sure Relneth or Okan-Shei point the player in the right direction for finding the items.

[SACarrow]

Would it be legitimate to have a quest requiring Cyrodiilic items as long as nothing in Cyrodiil was altered? Okan-Shei could direct the PC to a merchant in the IC or Cheydinhal that already offers that item. That would be OK (I think) and it might be cool to make the PC travel back-and-forth a bit. Of course, these can't be quest or unique items; just the garden-variety items.

As a request, if you could put significant updates as a new post, I'd appreciate it being a separate post. No big thang, but I track the board through the New Posts link and edited posts don't show up there.

Thanks,
Steve

[ImaJunryou]

Yeah, it brings up the lock-pick minigame. Well, if you have lockpicks. My little test character doesn't, which is annoying when I try to navigate around the shop (there's a couple of locked doors and containers). If you unlock the door in the console, it is still illegal to enter, too. Once inside, though, Okan-Shei unlocks the doors, and begins his AI package, and it is no longer trespassing. 'Tis a bit annoying. For now I've put that to the back of my mind, though. I want to get the dialogue finished up some.

Far as quests go with the Silgrad Tower landmass, how much can I affect? If I were to add a traveling merchant that wandered the streets of Reich Parkeep, for example, I would think that it'd fall outside the scope of Relneth's Repairs, despite said NPC being for a quest related to the shop. I also don't suppose I could add dialogue to already existing ST NPCs, could I?

I've got in mind for 4 different quests at the moment.

Okan-Shei's quests are to first get him some new apparatuses for his potion making hobby (first passion, really. He hates blacksmithing...). After that, grab some ingredients from around the world, as his collection has shrunk drastically since he got stuck in Ebbedin.

Relneth's quests are to first resupply him with repair hammers, and maybe some calipers or tongs, if they're common enough (haven't actually paid attention to misc. items before o_O). Secondly, it'd be to gather some armor parts, to be used as scrap for his repairs. The player could go spend money on buying the armor, directly from Relneth, even, but it'd be a bit of a waste of money, as the reward isn't going to be enough to compensate for that. It is supposed to be scrap after all ^^

A last couple of quests, and the source of my questions about setting up quests with other NPCs in the world, would be to set up Relneth and Okan-Shei some supply lines with another alchemist and smith elsewhere, so they could begin offering a 'special selection' of items suited for poisoning. They'd be offered at a premium, and the shop would close down for a week once a month while Relneth and Okan-Shei delivered their partners' cuts to them (which could be another quest for the player too).

It is all easy enough to make, but I'd need to add new dialogue to an alchemist and to a blacksmith, or enchanter.

The 'special selection' would also be prohibitivley expensive for the people of Ebbedin, marketed more towards passing adventurers. As such, they'd be in limited supply. The expense of making them, transporting them, and securing them would hopefully (according to Relneth) be offset by adventurers being drawn towards Ebbedin. They hope it will spark a small influx into the economy. In the end, they'll likely break even, and even lose a bit over time, as despite the nifty nature of the weapons, people don't like Ebbedin, and traffic likely wouldn't increase very much.

Anyway, those are my current ideas/plans for things. The 'special selection' idea sounds nifty in my mind, but I can't quite make up my mind as to how well it'd fit into Ebbedin.

edit:

I'll try to post big updates in a second reply, sure. :yes: Sometimes, though, I make several such updates quickly after my first post while I work on the mod, and the 60 minute time limit in making consecutive posts sorta hampers that

[SACarrow]

OK, I misunderstood. I thought you wanted to send people back to Cyrodiil. Quests that extend beyond Ebbedin but stay within the ST mod should be fine. My suggestion would be to complete Relneth's Repairs itself first, simply because it's easier to do external stuff once your claim has been approved and merged. Once that has occurred, then you can talk to the steward of the area you're thinking about for your quests (e.g. sandor for SteadHelm and Silgrad or Razorwing for RP/Soluthis) so your new dialogue or NPCs will go in smoothly. As for the voices, we can use all contributions but as sandor told me, it's best to wait to voice until after the merging with the ST ESM is done.

Thanks,
Steve

Reply to your edit: Sure, quick and minor changes to the message (like this one ) should be edits. But, yeah, it'd be cool if major additions or additions made significantly later than the OP were in new posts. Thx.