Factions, a discussion.

[Caligula Superfly]

Razorwing gave me the thumbs up to post this, so here we go...

This thread is about factions. Which ones people want to see, and in what form. Then for people who want to do quest planning in the future, they can look in here to see what people are interested in implementing into the mod.

Here are some of the things I think would be good to think about...

The great houses. Redoran and Hlaalu are obviously a must to have, but should they be fully joinable? Should you be able to increase in rank and become a high influential member? Then there is Telvanni. They aren?t very strong in west morrowind at all, but is it worth forgetting about them all together? Should we have Dren or Indoril?

The Tribunal Temple. It will need to exist, so I suppose the majority of discussion would be about the changes that have been made to it regarding structure changes from the Morrowind storyline.

What do we want to do about OB factions? Allot of this will need to be determined after we have played OB, but in general would it be important to everyone to see these? How can we represent the relatively little strength these are supposed to possess in Morrowind compared to what they hold in Cyrodil?

Shall we bring back old Morrowind Factions? Morag Tong, Imperial Guard, Imperial Cult?

I myself liked the Guild of Traders in ST: MW. It really added to the business-oriented atmosphere of the cities, making it feel like there was a whole world of wealthy merchants dueling for profits and investments throughout the urban areas. Are there any other ideas for home brewed guilds/factions?

[KuKulzA]

I hope whatever happens that there is a sense of connectivity between Fighters Guilds on Morrowind and on Vvardenfell, Mages Guild, etc. etc.... so on this I think the mod groups should all discuss this cause it is very important....
I don't want Morrowind to feel like a few separate worlds, I want it to be Morrowind....
so if a Telvanni faction kills a political leader in Silgrad Tower, then people on Vvardenfell will be talking about it!
if a prominent Fighter's Guild mercenary is killed, the Silgrad fighters guild might be talking about it... of a Redoran general dies in battle fighting Ashlanders or whatever... Redoran people all over their district will be talking about it!

I hope we can achieve a great big sense of connectivity with these mods so that the player can feel like it is a seemless mod... a whole new world!


(I know, a whole new world is from Disney song from Little Mermaid, o well :rofl)

[Razorwing]

According to the team's guidelines, paragraph 8 - which I myself had partially forgotten but they have core approval since way back -

If someone wants to create a completely new joinable faction, the bar is set very high. The following criteria needs to be met.
[blockquote]a) there must be a logical justification for their existence.
b) the faction must have a headquarters with NPCs (who have dialogue).
c) separate homes must be created for all NPCs in the headquarters.
d) one or more in-game books describing the faction must be written by the modder.
e) at least five fully completed and working quests implemented together with the faction.[/blockquote]
The book(s) are first and foremost design documents, so modders who come along later on can understand what the faction is about, though of course the book(s) should be written atmospherically. But any suggestion of a new faction would be discussed and decided among the core, and the core might be more or less lenient depending on the situation. If the new faction sparks an interest with other modders, then it could turn out to become a collaborative effort, meaning the workload won't be as steep for the one pitching the idea.

We're not including the Guild of Fighters / Wizards / Thieves from the start. As far as quests go, the Guilds are very similar in profile to House Redoran / Telvanni / Hlaalu, and it's better to give those quests to the Houses instead. Also, the forces of the Empire are retreating back to Cyrodiil, and without Imperial protection those Guilds could probably not operate in Morrowind. Most Dunmer loathe foreigners, and so most outlanders would feel the wind changing and move elsewhere.

It also mentions that quests for the Great Houses should be woven into the main story, but I don't think that has much bearing anymore.

But the idea behind the last quoted paragraph is that any Fighters- and Thieves Guild quest could very easily be tweaked into Redoran and Hlaalu quests, and since we're in Morrowind I figure that would add to the ambience. But I don't think quests for the standard Oblivion factions should be hindered either, just because the setup behind them is already there in the main game world and so that takes a lot of pressure off a modder as opposed to modding a faction from scratch. I'd love to do some Dark Brotherhood quests for instance.

It *is* a helluva lot of work to make a playable faction like that, easily requiring a month or two of an average modder's time, so such a decision shouldn't be taken lightly in my humble opinion. Knowing just how much effort it takes is a big reason behind ?8. The overall idea of it is to put enough required effort on modding a joinable faction that it offers tangible enjoyment to the player. Much of that weight would have to be carried by the modder who decides to give the faction a shot, though s/he can of course ask other modders to pitch in and make a quest if they want to.

Personally I would like to take on House Redoran as far as quests in the Reich Parkeep area goes; I'm sure I'm not the only one interested in doing Redoran quests, so if someone wants to work with me on that I'm totally open to discuss the finer points of that setup at any time.

[KuKulzA]

well I'll be glad to help out in any way I can... but I have my own mod-project... a beautiful island... (never as beautiful as Taiwan though! long last Taiwan!!!) .....but I have given my word to assist in Azhag's Orc Camp, Legio Argonis, and regions of the Velothi Mts., an I fully intend to honor my word when I am free to...
you made good guidelines Razorwing and I think my group will adopt that.... our bar is set high as well, but as of yet we don't have a real formal guideline... so if you don't mind I would like to adopt it and tweak it a bit to fit neatly into Vvardenfell

do you guys think my dream of a seemless Morrowind is possible/plausible?
not like Tamriel Rebuilt... but at least between west Morrowind and Vvardenfell?
(I mean if there is another group out there as determined/crazy as us and wants to do eastern or southern Morrowind, I won't shun them! )

and also, going along with the "united Morrowind mods" idea... do you think we can make quests that demand players to cross from one mod to another? Like for example: Duke Vedam Dren wants you to deliver a message to an official in Silgrad Tower?

[Caligula Superfly]

Also, the forces of the Empire are retreating back to Cyrodiil, and without Imperial protection those Guilds could probably not operate in Morrowind. Most Dunmer loathe foreigners, and so most outlanders would feel the wind changing and move elsewhere.

Very interesting, I had not thought of this before. This kind of power shift could make for some great quests. It should at least hold sway on some Great House related buisness.

EDIT:

do you guys think my dream of a seemless Morrowind is possible/plausible?
not like Tamriel Rebuilt... but at least between west Morrowind and Vvardenfell?

That depends, I think the ammount of voice work needed for such a thing would be the greatest limiting factor.

[KuKulzA]

yes... I agree....
my intent fo rthe reduction of Imperial law was that Imperial factions, their quests would be less far reaching and more defensive...
thje Thieves Guild will be trying to survive... the Fighter's Guild will be ridding itself of Cammona Tong manipulation and trying to stay on good terms with the Great Houses... and the Mages Guild... they are trying to not die in the hands of the Telvanni....
the Imperial Legion is still around of course.... but their strength is reduced also... at the beginning of TES3, the legions were already on the move out of Morrowind... so I think they have left behind more orcish and Dunmeri legions than Imperial.... which could cause trouble... lots of it...


but Razorwing has suggested merging some of the guilds' quests into House quests... I don't agree with that, but I can see its strengths an weaknesses... :yes:

[Razorwing]

KuKulzA:
Sure, go right ahead and adopt or tweak whichever guidelines you like. They don't have to have any bearing on the Vvardenfell team, of course, but many of them do stem from problems or mistakes encountered during the TES3 phase. The Empire's withdrawal is similar to that, it's a theme I think would be in keeping with Oblivion's main storyline and as Caligula also mentions could fuel a lot of interesting stories and quests. But Vvardenfell doesn't have to connect with it if they don't want to.

If someone came along and wanted to mod another part of the Morrowind Province I would try to talk them into modding for Silgrad Tower instead, as I hope you would try to talk them into joining the Vvardenfell team. Both would need all the modders they can get Once we start filling out the landmass we've planned I won't discount the idea of Silgrad Tower growing, because you need fresh space to make interesting quest locations and such, but I feel we have our hands full already

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by Razorwing
KuKulzA:
Sure, go right ahead and adopt or tweak whichever guidelines you like. They don't have to have any bearing on the Vvardenfell team, of course, but many of them do stem from problems or mistakes encountered during the TES3 phase. The Empire's withdrawal is similar to that, it's a theme I think would be in keeping with Oblivion's main storyline and as Caligula also mentions could fuel a lot of interesting stories and quests. But Vvardenfell doesn't have to connect with it if they don't want to.

If someone came along and wanted to mod another part of the Morrowind Province I would try to talk them into modding for Silgrad Tower instead, as I hope you would try to talk them into joining the Vvardenfell team. Both would need all the modders they can get Once we start filling out the landmass we've planned I won't discount the idea of Silgrad Tower growing, because you need fresh space to make interesting quest locations and such, but I feel we have our hands full already

1. thanks
2. I totally understand... but I mean a group that has already begun developement and looks to us for guidance, suggestions, etc. But I would like the nostalgic Morrowind lovers to come to our modding areas... and I agree, like you said, we've already got our hands full...

[raggidman]

Originally posted by Caligula Superfly
Razorwing gave me the thumbs up to post this, so here we go...

This thread is about factions. Which ones people want to see, and in what form. Then for people who want to do quest planning in the future, they can look in here to see what people are interested in implementing into the mod.

Here are some of the things I think would be good to think about...

The great houses. Redoran and Hlaalu are obviously a must to have, but should they be fully joinable? Should you be able to increase in rank and become a high influential member? Then there is Telvanni. They aren?t very strong in west morrowind at all, but is it worth forgetting about them all together? Should we have Dren or Indoril?

...snip...

I myself liked the Guild of Traders in ST: MW. It really added to the business-oriented atmosphere of the cities, making it feel like there was a whole world of wealthy merchants dueling for profits and investments throughout the urban areas. Are there any other ideas for home brewed guilds/factions?

Big factor that you seem to have given the key to here is that the main position of the Great Houses on Vvardenfell might go a long way to determine their positioning on the mainland. With exceptions of course.

So the
Redoran would seem the most likely for the West and NW
Hlaalu for W and SW South and SE
Telvanni are East and NE
Indoril appear in Vivec so S, but then why so few in Vvardenfell?. They seem highly cultured, and stable - what does this say about their home area? Do they vie with the Telvanni or are they at peace with them? They seem strongly bound to the Temple on Vvardenfell. Or have they other concerns?
Dres another big puzzle - maybe blocked off from the Inland Sea by one or more of the other factions.

[raggidman]

Suggest we consider the content of Valerius's story: Rebuilding the Temple: The Council of Mournhold. Board: Fan Fiction
Razorwing checked with Blue Dev and it seems that the question of the Temple has not been ignored in Oblivion.