Status ?

[bob196045]

Agreed

A Core rather than 1 individual

I like your chooses Raggid, but as we know its up to them to want to take on this task

I would propose a core of 5 members, no less and no more

Enjoy
Bob

[raggidman]

raggidman sits in a dark corner biting his nails - a murmered muttering is heard: will they, won't they; will they, won't they ....

hh: they are making up their minds ...

[bob196045]

Originally posted by raggidman
raggidman sits in a dark corner biting his nails - a murmered muttering is heard: will they, won't they; will they, won't they ....

hh: they are making up their minds ...

Suddenly a crashing sound is heard, Raggidman's is suddenly jolted and leaps 15 feet in the air
(someone dropped a book)

[raggidman]

raggidman lands on a can of diet softie that pops its tag and spills all over the floor: "WOZZAT?"

[Dave_91]

It's good to be positive.

I've been active on these forums for about 2 years now, and over that time I've learned so much. I feel that now I'm starting to get more comfortable with modeling I can contribute more than I did before in terms of creating models, as well as CS work.

I've started creating some new rocks for the Ascadian Isles. They're based completely upon the TES3 models (shape and scale), and I've made a texture that's similar to TES3's version and they're working perfectly in-game (with collision). I've made 6 rocks so far, and I should be able to complete the set within the next day.

Should we finalise how we plan to layout the forums? We can PM whoever necessary to make the changes. I think we should go for a combination of Seniosh's and Raggidman's idea if everyone's okay with that.

[Lightwave]

Actually Dave_91 is already the current joint leader alongside InsanitySorrow, I'm still in the core too, but honestly not sure who else still is, yet things have clearly become unglued and directionless, they never really came together after KuKulzA left. In fact I think things were drifting sideways before KuKulzA left and he could sense that, and it just didn't really get back on track.

It's entirely down to modders themselves to make this project and anyone in the core/leadership are guides and should be trying to drive enthusiasm and interest when momentum starts to dwindle or confusion reigns. Some people visit the forums and take great interest from time to time, but without them being able to bounce off an excited team who are already working on the project, they lose interest too.

Personally I'm more than happy for anyone else with a keen interest and some experience to be allowed in to the core, but I mostly view the core and leadership as a means for centralized guidance on technical issues, lore and when anyone working on the project is unsure of how they should be going about something etc, this project is down to each of you and the enthusiasm must be nurtured here, 'cos trust me, it ain't happening up in the core forums atm.

Originally posted by raggidmanWhat do you think Lightwave, is there a possible compromise here that would give us the best of all worlds?

Btw, the bit you quoted referred to TES3 landscape textures, I was referring to the placement squares which cover a wider area in TES3; 7.3m x7.3m. In TES4 a texture point only takes up 1.7mx1.7m so there's far more variety possible, and that's before blending. Region generation can add that detail, but could be very difficult to get right, and it will destroy all roads, fields, landscape texture features specific to ruins and towns in the process. But we're using TES4 textures already on the landscape, no TES3 assets and personally the lack of blending isn't nearly so much of an eyesore on a populated landscape.

The temporary placed content (which does come from Galadrielle's content converter and is using TES3 assets) was always meant to be replaced by swapping the static/activator mesh filepath in the CS, so it's an extremely fast way to have the land populated with newly TES4 detailed (and legal) meshes in exactly the way the team at Bethesda placed them. We've always been in need of meshes to replace them with of course and will regardless of what method we start with. Starting this way eliminates the requirement of placing them all, struggling with region generation now, and we know they'll look right. It's also far easier and more inspirational to working with this populated and explorable template than go back to the barren landscape of the last year which has already shown a year of honestly, overall negligible progress.

I've been doing what I can to jump-start the project by alleviating the physical effort as much as I could, especially the things that seemed to be intimidating (reflected in the lack of progress people were making) so I've automated what's feasible and would have required too much repetitive man-hours. When I first found out about this project in late 2006 I'd just written TESPort, but no-one had managed to produce a heightmap to start building anything on (I suspect because of CS memory limits). Then hearing KuKulzA wanted a 2x scale landscape I wrote TESAnnwyn to get it scaled up.

So since January 2007 we've already had a barren empty landscape to build on, but after the initial excitement (such as when Bethesda agreed to let us do it, probably because they think we're crazy ) people's efforts just seem to fizzle away. Texture conversion by late February had made the land look like a lot more appealing, but still empty. I converted and scaled the positions of the NPCs (with TES4 equivalent clothing, weapons) again to help alleviate the daunting effort but that didn't raise a lot of interest (hardly anyone downloaded it) and things continued to fizzle slowly.

By the 3rd quarter of last year Galadrielle's mesh converter came out so I got that converted in to a modindex 00 ESP to produce full LOD screenshots, which created a good impression with the people who saw them, but still didn't inspire anyone enough to really get in there and change anything, despite having a fully visitable world to download and visit.

And this is kind of where I left it once again a month ago. Dave_91 has wanted to reduce the project to a 1x heightmap, but this loses our uniqueness over the other Vvardenfell projects that have since started up and loses the awe factor of a grand landscape. That said, 1x also removes the intimidating workload and sometimes oddness of scaled up landscape features. But yes, it can be rescaled to any size really, 1x, 1.5x, 1.75x, 2x, anything.

Coinneach: The ST heightmap is huge, in fact their scale is monumental (which is why they've only chosen a small area of the map of Vvardenfell). AFAIR the heightmap was about 6144x6144 pixels. Our 2x heightmap is 5376x5632 and it's surround by a large area of water. The 1x heightmap is 2688x2816 pixels. ST covers over 5x the modding area of the original 1x Vvardenfell. However, the last time I looked (about 6 months ago in fairness), ST was mostly an empty landscape and that's been going longer than Vvardenfell and with a bigger, better organized team. If we were to replicate Vvardenfell at the same scale as ST, we should be probably be doing a 5x or 6x heightmap.

I do like the uniqueness and awe of the 2x landscape, but appreciate that this has proved too much for some and so it should go to the vote. Like a lot of you, I just want to get on with this mod too and start working on the world and leave the scale behind us. Being too pedantic just isn't working for this project ...

Lightwave

[Seniosh]

You guys will decide how you want to run things such as the landmass size, but here's what i think:

Whether you go 2x or 1x, you can make the cities the same size. So there won't be any extra work there if you go 2x.

And if you auto-generate the regions, it takes the same amount of effort to generate a 2x landmass as a 1x landmass. You need the same amount of presets, you'll just need to make longer roads, and more claims if you want to go back and make the landscape individualized.

So having a 2x landscape really doesn't add extra work unless you think too hard about it. Certainly at this stage it doesn't make it much harder.

And i think InsanitySorrow's out of the picture... He hasn't been around for a month or so (and I really don't remember him ever being involved in Vvardenfell, so i'm confused as to why he was leader)

In my opinion, the core will need to be a bit more than just guides, at least in the near future. To guide a mod, it has to be moving somewhere, and unfortunately, it lies up to the core to get the momentum rolling. I think you guys can do it though.

[raggidman]

Those screenies are APPALLINGLY impressive - I can understand why people would be intimidated by them.

abstruse maundering bit:
Also I wonder if once you have your stuff banged together is there any way to alter the scale overall ... well it may be technically daunting, but I am sure something of that nature will be achieved ... someday - just like render sliders. Natch you have to have the detail in there first, or do you?

back on course:
Watever else, I believe those conversions are counter-productive, not because they are not potentially useful, but because they have made people wonder whether the changes they are making are really worth doing or need to be done. Really people are probably thinking that they are redoing stuff.

I have a constant battle in Valenwood to get people to concept, model and tex according to the Green Pact - which really calls for Non-Vegetable Artifacts and Architecture - but because it is called Green Pact almost all to date are made from Deadwood/Altered Plants etc rather than face the real challenges.

But it is all evolving bit by bit, and as with Elsweyr the Lore and the concepts and the models - the very urgency of the need for them is producing Character and depth ... not only visual detail, but sufficiant personality to produce quests and stories.

I feel we are evolving together in valenwood and Elsweyr.

By contrast I feel that your method is an abstract exercise in spacial generation, which while practical in purely visual terms would kill that process sufficiently that someone like KKA would have to oppose it.

What I recommend isthat you work from the excellent model that so many have been making and bury that wonderfully awesome work you have there until your Vvardenfell is complete, then bring it out! Or use it yourself for discrete reference

And that advice about doing the 3 corners looks even better to me now.

Your mod has to be about the story of your people's lives, blood sweat and tears ... their building of every barn and house and the making of every bowl and plate is precious. It has to all be imbued with meaning in the minds of the madddelers and modders if you want people to be able to build great tales and others to live them.

Go with that, but do not think you have made a small thing with your generation/conversion. Suggest that you work on the mountain generation aspect a bit more and considerthat if you use your 'engine' it is to generate landscape ... but never habitation.

ps - on this screen I see a lot of cross-hatching where there are meadows and grass ...

[blackbird]

What do you mean on ST scale?
6* the original landmass or so?

[bob196045]

OK folks all scaling and questing ideas aside

We have a few things

As we have found out Dave_91 still leads this mod, Good news !!

Will Insanity return ?

and Lightwave is still on the Core

Now if you all wish to remain in those positions that is great

I would recommend you get 2 possibly 3 more Volunteer's
depending on Insanity's status

I would consider cutting the other portions of this discussion (map discussion) and make it into another Thread

I try not to be the negative amoungst all the possitive discussion we are having here but in my experience I have found this to be one of the major reasons for not getting things done, Lack of Structure....stay focused on what is being discussed....its very easy to get side tracked when great ideas and suggestions are brought up in the conversation ( I am just as guity as the next person) but please realize I only say these things because I care


Enjoy
Bob