Thieves' Guild

[Vrenir]

Alright, here's their own personal thread after their discussion in the Imperial Union. Let's get this fleshed-out.

First off, what are the old TG bases? I remember clubs in Balmora, Ald'ruhn, Sadrith Mora, and Vivec FQ. According to the idea proposed, most of these have been wiped out and Cammona Tong are inhabiting some of them. We need to assign these.

Balmora - perhaps the last normal TG base in operation, to be found by the PC and wiped out very soon into the quest-line. Let's say that you join up, get the full story about what's going on, and get your first quest from here, but the quest requires you to go somewhere else. When you return, you find that there's been an attack and all but two of the occupants are dead and these are fighting. Later used as a staging ground by the CT in their quest to reclaim Balmora, probably by a mutual effort from their Suran and Ganar Mok bases.

Ald'ruhn - possibly being run by a CT member as a bar still. The old owner and his friends were killed and the club bought by the CT. It's not a full-blown base, just a source of income and a safe-house for them with maybe a little stuff going on in the basement.

Sadrith Mora - recently slaughtered. This can be the one with the head in the gutter outside. Nobody is there, except maybe a Telvani guard, and you have to find out from the townspeople what happened.

Vivec - closed down, but by the Thieves themselves, who saw disaster coming and fled into the sewers of the Foreign Quarter. If you can find the new sewer base after you've fallen in with the Balmora group, then you get your quests from here. This is also the base that gets decimated at the end, closing the quest-line.

As far as quests go, I'd say that we need about five or six. One upon joining the Balmora TG, one to find the Vivec sewer guild, two or three for them involving a feeble counter-strike and a suspected defector, followed by a final massacre of the Vivec TG survival quest.

[EDIT] Additional thoughts on how to handle the TG and Cammona Tong: these quest lines should be kind of mutually exclusive, but I don't like the whole "you can't join us" thing. What if instead, we have the Cammona Tong quests given by three different NPCs in different places. These quest-lines can be followed in any order by a member, but the "kill the thieves" guy is killed at a retaliatory strike by the PC if they are playing Thieves' Guild. That way, if you play CT, you wipe out the Balmora thieves who recruit the PC and if you play TG, you wipe out the Tong guy who governs that conflict, thus preventing messy contradictions and allowing some strange player to do the Thieves' Guild quests and then later join the Cammona Tong for their other two quest-lines.

[Ixidors Bane]

Looks good, except I wouldn't use the Balmora base as the one still alive. If the CT are continuing to manipulate the Hlaalu, then there would be a very strong presense in Balmora, the seat of the Hlaalu outside Vivec. I would say that the CT have taken over the SOuth Wall Corner Club just like the one in Ald'Ruhn, and have the last surviving TG base in Sadrith Mora, being that it is such out of the way. Then keep the storyline the same, and have it so that the PC can join up there, then that base gets slaughtered (that's where the head in the gutter would come in), an then he goes off to find more members in Vivec. Eventually it they will be killed off as well, just you said. :goodjob:

Your idea for the conflict prevention sounds good, just switch it to work in Sadrith Mora.

[Vrenir]

I picked Balmora because it was KuKulzA's plan for the Cammona Tong influence among the Hlallu to have declined severely as the House's ties to the Empire strengthened, hence the quest-line for the CT centered on reclaiming Balmora and the Hlallu. Currently, according to what was stated elsewhere, the CT are allied strongly with subtle Dres influences in Ganar Mok and rogue elements in Hlallu (mostly near the Dren Plantation and Suran). Therefore, Balmora is certainly not a very safe place, but it's big, it's filled with Outlanders, and the CT has had little power there for years; the Thieves' Guild was strongly established there in TESIII, so I would think that it would be a good choice. The Sadrith Mora guild was chosen to be wiped out so violently because there is little in the way of law enforcement among the Telvani; nobody would really care that a bunch of Outlanders were slaughtered in some dispute, just check it off in the books and move on to other matters. Ald'ruhn wouldn't be a safe place for the Thieves' Guild as they would probably want them out anyway and have little problem with a pro-Dunmer group cleaning up the town for them. Hence, Balmora being the one left (for the first quest anyway). If you and others really think that there's a better option though, I'm not going to be picky on this.

[Ixidors Bane]

Ok, when you put it that way, it makes more sense. I forgot about the CT's decline in influence in the Great House's. :dunce:

[Ebonyknight]

Sadrith mora shouldnt be wiped because Wolverine hall would back them up they are criminals but still have allies.

[Vrenir]

Wolverine Hall is not there to back them up as it has been either totally or near-totally evacuated and handed over to local Telvani authorities. (See the Imperial Union thread)

[Ebonyknight]

Thought for Wolverine hall would be like why not turn it into a tel vos sort of deal another imperial telvanni tower?

[Vrenir]

I would hesitate to do that simply because it might ruin the uniqueness of Tel Vos. Also, the takeover would have been very recent or still in-process at Wolverine Hall, so there may not have even been time for the Telvani to grow a tower there. I actually think that we will need the space to garisson Telvani guards and such, because in TESIV, everyone will need a place to sleep and such instead of camping out on patrol all the time. Honestly though, Telvani stuff is probably going to be near last on the modeling list because it's so crazy, and the only people who can really decide what to do with Wolverine Hall are the guy in charge of Sadrith Mora and KuKulzA.

[Ebonyknight]

hope theres models in oblivion that maybe you guys can sort of copy to help with the the construction of Telvanni cities and settlements.

[Vrenir]

Very very unlikely. There would be no reason at all for there to be Telvani or any other type of Dunmer in Oblivion. If we're really lucky, maybe we'll get a Velothi monument on the border. Fortunately, Razorwing and Spankybus have been dishing out some incredible stuff to recreate Morrowind architecture and inventory. As I said though, Telvani is probably last on their list.