Thieves Guild

[TheImperialDragon]

EDIT TID 28/05/09: The poll has been up for quite a while now, and I think the decision's pretty much final. We'll have one branch following the old guild, and one that is much more violent and without honor.

What are they up to these days?

I like to think of the old Daggerfall Thieves Guild when I think of quests and such.

But the one we all know (and some probably love) is the passive Thieves Guild, bound by rules and honour.

The one led by Gentleman Jim Stacey (master of the Vvardenfell Guild) is pretty much obliterated [Reference], and the Grey Fox has no rule outside of Cyrodiil. Each province has a different guild, each bound by different rules.

Since Gentleman Jim Stacey's guild is gone, that leaves room for us to decide what kind of guild exists here. Surely there will be bloodthirsty remenants who would like more than anything a go at either the Morag Tong or the Fighters Guild, but there will probably be some who will want to uphold the principles laid out by Gentleman Jim Stacey. So what are we going to do...

This was already discussed ages ago here (no Morag Tong discussion), but I wanted to get more opinions on the Thieves Guild (the other guilds should be modded as whoever mods them wants them to be, they don't have to use those ideas). I do want to know, however, for the Fighters Guild how the Thieves are doing, and possibly how people think the best way to organize them is. I need to know how to implement them in quests. So, discuss:

[KuKulzA]

The Thieves Guild is tolerated in Morrowind only cause it forces dangerous gangs out of business, except super-powerful ones like the Camonna Tong which has the muscle to contend with an old and wealthy Guild of Thieves

However, on Vvardenfell the Guild is dead. The Fighters Guild, partially in concert with the Camonna Tong have weakened the Thieves Guild. The Fighters Guild themselves were weakened by their feud withthe Thieves and their corruption (dealings with Camonna Tong) led to a internal feud that resulted in the banishment of Eydis Fire-eye, and the death of Sjoring Hard-Heart and Lorbumol gro-Aglakh, competent but corrupt leaders.
Most recently, there has been a Massacre of Thieves. Celebrated by some as a purging of n'wah, seen as a heinous crime by others, the Thieves Guild on Vvardenfell, it in weakened state, was killed in one fell swoop. Camonna Tong thugs discovered the identities and hideouts of the Thieves Guild (not too hard to find), and on one day, when many Thieves were congregated, the Camonna Tong pounced, killing off those in the Southerwall Cornerclub of Balmora, Dirty Muriel's Cornerclub of Sadrith Mora, and the Thieves in Vivec City. The Ald-ruhn group didn't need to be killed off... it was killed off in the Fall of Aldruhn.

The only survivors are Gentleman Jim Stacey, and a tiny handful of fellow Bal Molagmer, who have their robin-hood-esque reputation and identity to cover them for now... but their group is constantly in danger of being discovered and killed (by both Camonna Tong, but also Fighters Guild, guards of Houses, etc.) since they are crooks, stealing for the poor... though charitable they are still criminals, nothing will change that




thats how things are going on in Vvardenfell... kinda grim...

however, considering Camonna Tong are strongest on Vvardenfell (now), Hlaalu, Indoril, and Dres lands, with less interest in Telvanni and Redoran lands...the Thieves Guild would do a little better here... not that there isn't competition with other Guilds and gangs, just that there;s a little less

that's my take on it hrug:

[bob196045]

Timeframe !


During the timeframe of Morrowind I do not see it that way

I suppose it would depend on what the player did in his/her role as the Nerevarine.

I know that the CT infiltrated the Fighters Guild and was on the verge of ousting the Thieves Guild except that the Nerevarine as a member of the Theives Guild should have taken out those major players. also a major blow to the CT in Balmora could have taken place in a quest given by Larrius Varro to eliminate the Tong in Balmora. So with Fire-eyes and Hard Hard out and 5 of the major players in Balmora gone, it would seem as the CT had been worn down and in some cases even Orvas Dren (their leader) may have been killed.

The Tong should still have substancial holdings though, as some of House Hlaalu Members are also involved with the Tong, which is kinda strange since the Tong opposes Imperial Rule but House Hlaalu tolerates them for profit. I suppose if played well it could work (good politics I guess)
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Were does this come from?

Most recently, there has been a Massacre of Thieves. Celebrated by some as a purging of n'wah, seen as a heinous crime by others, the Thieves Guild on Vvardenfell, it in weakened state, was killed in one fell swoop. Camonna Tong thugs discovered the identities and hideouts of the Thieves Guild (not too hard to find), and on one day, when many Thieves were congregated, the Camonna Tong pounced, killing off those in the Southerwall Cornerclub of Balmora, Dirty Muriel's Cornerclub of Sadrith Mora, and the Thieves in Vivec City.

Even if this did occur, it occured in the future of Morrowind which Silgrad ES4 is not. I'm not opposed to it by any means, but if this is the state of the thieves guild on Vv in OB time then, whatever we do in Silgrad should potentually lead us along this path and give us options to select another path

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I personnaly like the idea of bring back the Bal Molagmer and haveing the actuall thieves guild play a small role

Enjoy
Bob

[Razorwing]

Maybe the Thieves Guild in Silgrad Tower is only referred to as the Thieves Guild by outsiders, while the real organisation is an independant organized crime group with their own agenda and ideals? Just a thought. It would have the advantage of us not having to restrict ourselves based on what lore says about the Thieves Guild.

[bob196045]

Originally posted by Razorwing
Maybe the Thieves Guild in Silgrad Tower is only referred to as the Thieves Guild by outsiders, while the real organisation is an independant organized crime group with their own agenda and ideals? Just a thought. It would have the advantage of us not having to restrict ourselves based on what lore says about the Thieves Guild.

Agreed

I think a small run outfit of thieves not necessarily affiliated with the Guild would suffice and give the player more latitude

Enjoy
Bob

[bob196045]

Howdy

This poll was posted over a month ago, though their were not many votes it seems that the consenses is to have the Thieves Guild play a minor role in Silgrad and to allow the player to explore a more Robin Hood type roll.

For those players who enjoy playing the rogue we should still have the thieves guild as a joinable faction, however their quest path should be minor and have no significant effects on the overall outcome of play.

For this, we would require to bring Gentleman Jim out of retirement or Select a new head of the Bal Molagmer in which our player can be introduced and receive the quests.

How many quests do we want to have for this?

How about the gloves, I wasn't too impressed with the plain black gloves used in MW, maybe we could spice that up and give them some special properties.


Suggestions are always welcome


Enjoy
Bob

[Sam324]

Maybe GJS retires to Steadhelm and you must start the questline by convincing him to re-commence thieves guildd work in ST?

[bob196045]

Not a bad Idea

Gentleman Jim can play a minor role as well, he could be found in a home near Steadhelm or within the town is fine, He will not mention the Bal Molagmer at first, (that would be too easy)

How about if we have some small thing happen just outside his home, an act of charity perhaps, and Jim see's this from his window, but will not approach you, if you enter his home, he will mention he saw you do this good deed. Then he can explain to you the Bal Molagmer

He can mention his retirement, he can say that he thought all was done but when he moved to the mainland and he saw all the wrong being done, he thought of comming out of retirement until he saw you (the player)

He will ask if you would be willing to do some things

What are those things ?????



Enjoy
Bob

[Sam324]

How about this: rumors are a local vampire nest has a certain sacred temple artifact (Open for ideas as to what artifact) and you must either:
A. Convince them to relinquish the artifact by doing a small quest-within-a-quest for them
B. Buy it.
C. Steal it.
Your may not kill them as this would go against the theives guild's honor code.

[bob196045]

Its a good idea for a minor thieves guild quest, but I do not feel it would work well for the Bal Molagmer. Unless the aritact is originally owned by a greedy person, and after recovery was given to a poor farmer


enjoy
Diet Bob