Cerro Vampires

[raggidman]

:lmao: "the shopkeeper is a Cerro" :bananarock:

:nasty thought: and so Morrowind - neither the Cerro nor the Indoril have any reason to really like the Fighter's Guild do they?

And they might see the fighter's Guild as inferior cannon fodder, so if the FG want a separate 'Academy' in another part of Silgrad even 'to smoothe the rough edges off their brash and lowly champions' sponsored by the University, and were willing to pay through the nose for it, why not?

Naturally the School of Chivalry Faculty would still go ahead on the main Campus itself for the sons of True Nobility and those smart enough to understand it is not a good idea to pick your nostril with your Greatsword at the Dining Table... What did I say? hrug:

[bob196045]

Yes and maybe even that cute dancer over in Suran.... "Looking for
something special Sera"

Cerro vs Fighters guild ..open to do what we want

But the houses I don't beleive any of them have any particular like or dislike towards the guild

Indoril see everyone as inferior

Another option...is to have the University have a Secondary Campus
University of Silgrad Academy of Combat Training, located in the rugged
Velothi Mountain Range south of Silgrad Tower

[raggidman]

hrnn hmm, cute dancer?

Well I am not sure the Cerro really care about the FG - unless there is a vampire in the FG?

Well, true, apart from the fact that it is an Imperial institution? and the Great houses have their own fighters...

:lol: Indoril = Morrowind's answer to the Altmer

Hey, great idea - would they be happy in the Legio Argonis Swamp d'you think then?

But do not lose your wonderful School of Chivalry - that is totally different - thuogh they might send their students over to the Academy to toughen them up? as part of the course... ?

[bob196045]

Well, true, apart from the fact that it is an Imperial institution? and the Great houses have their own fighters...


True: I was gonna say that, but forgot (again with the forgetting )

Well putting the Academy in that areas isn't a bad Idea, but the Legio is also Imperial Sanctioned and that might be a bit close quarters for the 2 outfits to be in.. and the Legio has its own troubles with the pirates.

Yes the Chivalry would stay.

Second option would be to have the University Main Campus (near Silgrad)
have the Academy along with the Magic, and have the University (Branch)
in a remote place somewhre in the Velothi Mountains where the Knights are trained, it would still accomplish the overall plan ?

[raggidman]

Well putting the Academy in that areas isn't a bad Idea, but the Legio is also Imperial Sanctioned and that might be a bit close quarters for the 2 outfits to be in.. and the Legio has its own troubles with the pirates.

Haven't been following the Legio Threads, though I did swop stuff earlier when KKA created a discussion thread.

Do you think it would be a bad idea for the Academy to send assistance to the Legio in case of emergency? And if they were neighbours that would be one option. The precise position of the Academy would be important. If they were directly between the Legio and the pirates for example that might create a situation where the Legio had to come to the aid of the Academy instead.

There may be other areas that are tougher or more suitable in ST, RPK and BL, but since my Morrowind/ST comp get flooded I have not been able to play... and i have only visited a few locations so far... However I think it would feel better if the 'annex were not too far from the main campus... it might be North of ST, but you did suggest south in your earlier post... ?

Yes the Chivalry would stay.

:goodjob:

Second option would be to have the University Main Campus (near Silgrad)
have the Academy along with the Magic, and have the University (Branch)
in a remote place somewhere in the Velothi Mountains where the Knights are trained, it would still accomplish the overall plan ?

? not sure what advantages there would be to that... ? It seems there is a strong desire in the Fighters' Lounge for a Fighter Academy, but the Chivalry and Alchemy are not initially inspired by the Cerro's desires, that is just glorious opportunity for all... (or maybe something more sinister - we shall see) ... what they are they are about is a further level of education for the progeny of the ruling elite, and those of exceptional ability who will serve them. That is the prime lure for the Elite to send their progeny there. Diluting that might put off potential alumni, and having to associate with mere 'Fighters' could do even more damage... It is the University that is doing the Fighters a biiiig favour by creating the Academy (just not too nearby thanks ) and that in turn provides the Fighters with further inspiration to prove themselves superior...

The process of a University education is partly based upon the concept of putting talented people and those they hope to serve one day together to give them a chance to make friends and assess their enemies. The arts of war and peace in Tamriel make Magica and Physical Combat equally valuable, but there is that third way which is to do with diplomacy, economics, and suchlike which the future leaders of society have a need for.

The only extra thing that occurs would be whether there might be a 'secret' Rogues School buried within the other Faculties either to provide essential awareness of 'certain techniques' that the students are likely to find employed against them, or to provide rogues with some real challenge by forcing them to compete with the brightest and the best in all 3 fields and still stay hidden hrug: or for both purposes... ?

Hey bob, haven't we drifted a tiny bit off topic here?

[bob196045]

No response to anything yet...

But yes I believe the topic and discussion have crossed over that invisable line


it happens



Bob

[bob196045]

Do you think it would be a bad idea for the Academy to send assistance to the Legio in case of emergency?

If we go with option 2 and have the Branch for Chivalry at the secondary location, then having it close by the Legio would be fine, I don't see a problem with Knights helping an Imperial Sanctioned Legion

***********
A thought


to consider: Those most like to attend Knightly Training would be Noble Class and The Temple. (not the Tribunal Temple) The Temple which are devoted to the Nine Divines and most of them would be Imperials, and Im sure sons of many wealthy Hlaalu and Redoran Families

They definitely wouldn't want to train with a bunch of Mercenaries or Alchemists, it would be like paying to send your kid to Oxford and finding out that the school is busing in kids from Brooklyn City College (nothing against brooklyn)

And of course the Cerro Clan who is controlling this school from the shadows, most likely would'nt want Imperials around either .


*****************

and another thought

At this point I think we should build a University in the Forgotten forest offering training for aspiring Alchemist, Botonist and Training for Mercenaries be they Redoran, Fighters Guild or anyone.

Build a secondary Campus Branch in the Southeastern Mountains, relatively close to the Legio Fort and offer training to the Temples of the Nine and the Elite Class in Chivalry. This can still be Run by Indoril/Cerro..
the income made from tuitions would come in handy for both.

The Cerro can use the Main Campus as their staging post for their studies and recruiting etc. etc. as we talked about earlier

A Secret Rogue School within the campus... I like that Idea alot, also plays in with our Stealthy Cerro.

[raggidman]

Let's see, What I think you feel is that the Chivalric Knights to be, and the Alchemists would not want to be around the academy Fighters - :check:

----------------------------------------------

Therefore The Main University campus near the Forgotten Forest should have The School of Chivalry and the School of Alchemy for the Young of the Dunmer Leaders, some exceptional Temple and the progeny of exceptional beings who are sympathetic to the New Dunmer and Indoril aspirations from other parts of Tamriel. :check:

Imperials in the School of Chivalry???? This is being founded by the Indoril who are fleeing the Hlaalu Imperial sympathisers, and by the Redoran who are also being squeezed by those same sympathisers... And the Redoran are also beginning to flex their independance muscles - see the quest for the Battle with the Nords at the Ancient Gate - No Imperials there to resist the Nords, it is the Redoran who have to fight them off... and the Imperials just sit tight in their Forts while the countryside is ravaged by marauding Daedra...

The Fighters' Academy would be in an Annex far away. Because they are not very popular with the People at the University :check:

~~~~~~~~~~

Architecture and Questing

Just had a thought, the Indoril Founders have to arrive - what if the arrive in a ship that is attacked by Pirates? The Nerevarine is sent on a quest that puts him in the area, or it just activates when the player arrives in a certain area.

The pirates get beaten back natch, but their ship is damaged. They unload as much of their possessions as poss just before it sinks. And ... well, maybe a bit of diving later could unearth some lost goddies...

That might create a funding shortfall. How fortuitous for the Fighter's Guild and other developements later... So this is why they are very grateful to be offered this apparently barren section of the Dark Forest...

The Cerro, drawing on the memories of their ancients, inform our questing hero that there are forgotten buildings in the Forest.

The Main Campus

The Hero would have to quest to discover and start first with:
1) - either a buried Ruined Redoran Stronghold on the edge of the Forgotten Forest - that has to be dug up and renovated;
2) - or an Adolescent Emperor Crab (alive or dead) Shell sunken in pool at the edge of the Forest - smaller than the Ald'Ruhn Council House Crab, but far bigger than the Redoran Stronghold. The Crab shell might provide a substitute for the ruin of Ald'Rhun in TES4.
= original moddelling either way and some great battles?

Quests to build, decorate, furnish , employ staff, etc

--------------------------------

When the Main Campus is halfway complete

The project is proving far more costly than at first anticipated - the builders are screwing the Indoril Founders of the University for every gold piece they can get, and the Founders are strapped for cash so (apparently just by chance or out of the blue - is there any such thing?) they meet a shady character (your choice) who mentions that the Fighters' Guild is interested in establishing an Academy, and ... more questing ... the Founders accept the commission for:

The Fighters' Academy
which might be built in the Imperial or Hlaalu Style... and ?by co-incidence? the Fighters insist it be nicely placed at the spot on the southern edge of Silgrad Territory where the Founders were attacked by Pirates, and where the Hlaalu are likely to be encroaching...

------------------------

The next stage is to complete the Original Main Campus

- that might start with
a Large, Unique Indoril Building
this has benefits down the line - there are a lot of modders in Vvardenfell, and they will have need to create Indoril refugee communities, so we might entice one of them in... ? This could provide the concept basis for an Indoril Tileset... And many players would be fascinated to see what true Indoril building looks like = golden opportunity... and powerful impact if done well.

-------------------------------

Last stage - Expansion

Universities need to attract students and professors from other cultures - or they are mere local colleges. And there are 'freedom factions' in various Provinces... these are the most culturally egocentric of their races... so some of them have special requirements that must be met if the University is to retain them - especially the Bosmer and the Khajiit.

So letters to be sent inviting some very special Tamriellians with special skills and even more special Housing requirements. Thus the last step is about getting to the Nords (to protect them from everyone who wants to kill them because of the current invasion) and Redguards who have been insulted by the Nords and demand satifaction, the Bosmer (who are accused of a theft), The Argons sadly are ambushed by the Cammona Tong and the remains are found by our hero, the Khajiit (some of whom are former escaped slaves) are in desperate straights as the Cammona Tong are after them too, and the Bretons (name that quest - by deciding who might think they are spies) in time at the Borders to escort them safely, despite mounting and increasingly co-ordinated opposition (may even include some of the out of control, and raging Cerro, who have been tracking a band of Imperial Vampires hired by unknown opposition, to the Campus = and once they all arrive there is overcrowding and boy can those academics bitch. So there is more questing to build suitable accomodations for them esp = a Greenpact home and a Khajiit home.

The Bretons (they are formidable Alchemists) are there courtesy of a very special Lady known as Barenziah ... her son may be unfortunate, but she is well loved hrug: and better connected, and has a soft spot for the Indoril - maybe due in part to the efforts of her personal friend and biographer who admires their efforts and has recommended the Bretons by reputation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

.... and read this waterlogged and tattered page from a diary that has washed up from a shipwreck off the coast of the Western Mainland of Morrowind

[1ST]Y[/1ST]ou Imperials think yourselves the center of the world, but we of the Ashlanders and the Great Houses know that our history, full as it is with hardship and trials, is rich and varied. Morrowind was founded by the people of Veloth fleeing injustice and tyrrany, and we feel no shame in our culture. You shall see in the years to come that we are not to be so easily put down or dismissed.

Why, if you ever bother to visit any City in Morrowind, even in the corrupt Hlaalu City Balmora, the very people on the streets will tell you that the poorest benefit from the Temple's University system... it is ancient and revered. All Dunmer know this.

But times are hard, and the Temple is in turmoil. We, the Last Sages of the Indoril are afraid, for we see our traditional lands being subsumed by the Greedy Hlaalu and the Rapacious Dres, while the Ghost Fence weakens, the creatures of the blight and worse pour forth to devastate Vvardenfell as the Tribunal disappear or fall one by one.

We have tried to awaken the people of our Great House to their danger, but they have their own concerns, they turn from us, they scoff, they deny what happens before their very eyes - all for the sake of their pride.

And so in these forsaken days, when there is no safety to be found anywhere, we have taken it upon ourselves to outfit a ship and quest to establish a new Center of Learning. To preserve that which is best in our culture. By this means in times to come, there may also be some place of refuge, where our beloved people fleeing oppression, may find safety learning and something familiar.

It is our thought that of all the other Great Houses, it is to Redoran that we might most naturally turn in this our hour of need. They have the same enemies, are loyal to the Temple and together we may find common cause.

May the Saints and Ancestors bless this, our endeavor,
Naimer Indoril,
Scholar

#~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#

To be or not to be an MQ?

You were considering earlier:

anyways Quite possibly this Cerro/University of Silgrad quest can be the Silgrad Tower TES III Mod Main Quest. as it has been requested several times that ST have a main quest !!!

I hope the above goes some way to fulfilling that MQ possibility, by making ST TES3 the natural connector to TES4 as you also noted...

This is one reason that the Indoril are important because they tie in with the Vvardenfell MQ. However we will have to do more work to justify such an assertion... Why, you may well ask? Because a Main Quest is there as a center point for the Major Events of the time. It has to be pervasive, and that means we will have to reach into RPK and BL too, with Razor, Rodan and Valderon still around that may be possible, but we have to do as much as we can here and now so as to impress them sufficiently. wish I had somewhere I could model, and the software to do so - never done 3D though. Suspect I might do well at textures... you'll just have to put up with my maundering instead! :]

Simply, we will have to tie this into far more in Silgrad also.

But I have been thinking of a name: 'The University and the Vampires' - both a public and a secret quest. It needs working on methinks.

And it is very Beyond Cyrodiil too as it does not change the basic natures of the Cosmos or anything, merely exploits the structure that is there in new ways... There has always been University Education in Morrowind - and there have always been Vampire clans - but we are doing this in a new way that is fully interactive with ongoing politics.

One thing here is highly ironic for me, my father was from Romania (vampire country) and I have always resisted that connection, and now I find myself creating a whole Clan of Vampires. And I once visited 'the Castle' - Vlad Dracul's? - on a busman's holiday with my father...

[bob196045]

Edit Note: The letter..... where did that come from ?






Let's see, What I think you feel is that the Chivalric Knights to be, and the Alchemists would not want to be around the academy Fighters -


I was actually thinking opposite

Let me absorb and attempt to justify my thought process

The Nine Divines are Primarily Cyrodiilic Dieties. When someone joins the Temple of Julianos< (example) to learn the Order, they will be trained in priestly duties and responsibilites, and in the ways of Julianos, at some point in their career, they might want to be Knighted in the Order... in which case they would need to be trained.....what better place than the University of Silgrad School of Chivalry !
Wealthy Aristocrates from Cyrodiil would also want to send their snobbish sons, to such a school as well.......

So why then would House Indoril and Redoran fund such a place ?

Typically they wouldn't ! But in our little scenerio we also have the Cerro, who are pulling the strings in order to get what they need out of it all...

They as well don't like the Imperials for it was an Imperial Vampire who infected them. !

But the Cerro and Indoril are smart ! They know that by offering a School of Chivalry for the Aspiring Temple Knights and to the Aristocratic family in Cyrodiil, they can acomplish many things


(I think this would be a time for house Indoril to make comprimise... I understand that they are openly against the Imperials.. However with seeing the writing on the wall, it would make sense that they would make drastic change in order to preserve their House.. to me this just makes sense, we often comprimise to gain )

1: Money and resourses
2: Potential Victims for their experiments, why do I say that....simply this.. if the school of chivalry is built near our Legio it would be easy to explain the disappearance of a student, the rough country, the pirates, bandits etc etc...Also it will give the PC an oppertunity to interact with the Legio ...Imperials would help an Imperial Sanctioned Legion.
3: The possiblity of converting some of these Imperials into symathisers for house Redoran & Indoril...allowing them more places they can hide, more people they can trust..etc... etc

Am I close to making any sense

Those are my thoughts on that subject
***********************************************************

Archecture:

Redoran and using an Emporer Crab Shell was my first thought... it would make a perfect school !! and they are available in TES IV.......
thats my vote

***********************************************************

Questing: Involving the Pirates

I like the Idea, but we have to asume that the player may or may not have obtained the Nerevarine Status. So to involve the Cerro at this point wouldn't make sense......

some players don't play that part...... not our problem....... But I wouldn't want to make any of the quests for the schools to require it either... so the Cerro involvement only would have to be limited to that requirement.

Lets say that if the player is the Nerevarine, then the additional interaction with the Cerro is enabled....if the player is not, then enjoy the schools and learn whats going on...the dialogue could even be set up as such to tell the PC about the troubles in House Indoril and basically say we need the return of the Incarnate soon or all hope is gone (something like that) so this way if the player wants to help or get involved in this quest line, they will be promted to continue with the Nerevarine Quest Line.

********************************************************

Building the Campuses:

My thoughts: Have the Script enabled to start once the PC enters the Region.... simply this: once the player enters the actual cell, he/she will find ( a building ) being renovated, dug up, put back together.......
If by approaching one of the workers, enter dialogue, you are told to speak with the foreman.. Enter Dialogue with the Foreman and he will tell you about the Univeristy and ask if you would like to help with the construction ! This could get our Player involved in the whole thing... several quests could be put together to help build everything from hireing workers, to buying books and materials, gathering ingredients...etc etc
similar to the raven rock build.
Once the University is completed, you are then offered a free scholarship
( this is of course for the player who decides not to go the way of the fighters guild or temple knights)

a 3rd method of getting involved with the Cerro

again.. does not require Nerevarine status and the real questing wont start until such status is optained otherwise, enjoy the school.....

**************************************************
The School is halfway complete


I like this Idea as well if we go with that method

But if you agree with my aboved mentioned reasons for wanting the Chivalry seperate, the we just change the Shady Character to an House Indoril Leader, who will admit that they are at wits end and are willing to do what it takes to get the money and resourses needed... and that through connections and some convincing from their "Special Members" (Cerro) they have been convinced to establish this school of chivalry for those Imperial Scum.
******************************************************
Completing the Main Campus

If we go with the Emporer Crab Shell, then this wouldn't fit... Im all for having new tilesets and models made. and it would be a prompter to interest some modelers to get involved in this project. SO thats something we will have to play by ear, plug it and see if we can get someone to make models for both 3 and 4
******************************************************
Final Stages:

I like... we send our player off on quests to recruit students. Maybe even a few interactions to help the potential student in getting to the school, Morrowind is a dangerous place.....




Thats bout all I got for now




Bob

[raggidman]

Wow, you just gave me a great idea!

Consider that we have 2 opposing opinions that neither of us want to give up on the question of whether the Knights remain in their Campus or are exiled. These a genuinely held and felt = a very real choice that we might give the player.

What would that create? We would have to examine what we believe both the direct and indirect advantages and disadvantages would be and see if they would create a branch in the overall scenario. If the larger picture is affected then the difference is valid... Maybe we would have to add in more options/events to illustrate what we believe the eventual consequences might be...

Would you like to try this? If so does one of us go first or do we just bash on with it?

ps, a full sized Emp Crab was enough for the entire council and retainers plus beurocracy and shops in Ald'Ruhn - I was suggesting an adolescent because that could require other buildings - and that would leave the possibility that the thing is alive and must be killed... major beastie - might be as bif as a dragon!

But there again if we go for a Redoran Stronghold then the Emp Crab might be just a shell top that was noted but not exploited, leaving it as a Quest for TES4?