Fighter's Guild Quest 01

[Back2Murder]

If done right yes. It could, if turned out wrong just be a walk in the park. ooh. they are all dead anyway. Let's just keep running get the sigil and get out.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Agreed with all of the above. It needs some thought but is an enticing prospect.

These posts made me reconsider something that just keeps cropping up in my mind. What role might the actual PC have in the whole mod? This in itself is a question that concerns the main storyline but it could also affect the subsidiary missions as well, particularly if there is some special significance in playing as an Argonian.

I don't want to veer away from the main topic of this thread but I have this nagging fear that we'd have to make it so inter-active that we have to automatically code into quests the command, "is the player an Argonian?" and then to have two sets of outcomes. An Argonian player would have to be very much a neutral party, perhaps a returning Argonian who has been dispossessed of their heritage in some way....not disgraced though as in 'Ruined Tail's Tale' (although I still love that mod)....but the "is the player an Argonian?" might actually incur a single sub-plot whereby that context is made clear and we can then quest away freely without the need for over-doing the inter-activity.

This whole thought process came about because I was thinking that the 'spectral Argonians' could represent those Argonians enslaved to the Hist and that the PC would be forced to mediate between the two in order to divert some cosmic disaster such as the 'contamination' of the Oblivion plane (which would, in turn, affect the either the cosmic balance or other planes of existence). The PC would therefore have had to be a 'Hist-disloyal' Argonian to go against the wishes of the Hist in this way.

[Deeza]

There's a theory that all the Argonians who leave Black Marsh are only travelling round the world to do research for the Hist (I believe an Argonian said as much in one of the Elder Scrolls games). Possibly they even have their minds wiped before going so they have no knowledge of their true purpose...

My point is, you're quite right it's perfectly reasonable for us to use the same quest no matter what race the player is, because we can just throw in some argonian-specific dialogue to explain that the PC has no memory of the Hist (just like the PC never finds out why they were in jail at the start of the game, we can leave it up to the player to fill in for themselves whether their character rebelled against the Hist, is ignorant because they were born a slave or just doesn't care about any of it).

That said, I like your idea that we include an argonian-only side-quest that teaches them more about their heritage and explains their lack of knowledge of it, and I agree with you that it shouldn't be essential to progressing through the main quest.

Playing BM as an Argonian will probably be quite a different experience anyway without a separate main quest branch. For example, the Paatru and Naga won't attack you on sight, but House Dres will. You'll also be immune to the diseases that otherwise are a major obstacle to exploring the Marsh.

[SwedishFish]

I don't know if this has been brought up but maybe the Hist's plan is to revert the world back to its primitive state and the Argonians are its creation to return the world back to an Eden state. This would mean their location must be very secret and maybe only an Argonian would be allowed in the Inner Grove to see them. Any other race would have to cut their way through.
My suggestion here is not to villianize the Hist but that they are simply following their own instinct to grow above the rest, to survive. Maybe the Hist covered all of Cyrodiil but now they have shrunk to only the Marshes. Now with the eradication of slavery the Hist now sees this as a time to begin to "plant the seeds."
Definitely off thread, but I don't really see a place for the main quest.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Thanks for the ideas, SwedishFish. I have assigned the MQ ideas development to the core boards for discussion. It may seem selfish but I don't like passer-by members drifting by and thinking they can contribute to the main quest with writing when they do no modding and those guys don't hang around long anyway. I also tend to think that I'll do a better job than many which may seem big-headed but I've already vested my interest in this project. In such a way, I sort of discourage people to get involved in that sense because I've been writing for years and would have liked to have things appear in a mod but lacked the technical skills. It always irritates me when people think they can write quests but do no modding, expecting someone else to do it. I find that quite insulting and exasperatingly naive.

Nevertheless, that concerns only the writing itself. Ideas are very much welcome... :goodjob:...and I can then absorb or discard what I like at will. That doesn't mean I won't credit people though as that would be unfair, so I just set up a thread on the core boards that I'll update gradually with ideas, writing and references. I thought that you particularly had a right to know what was going on at least.

Anyway, FYI I already have quite a few ideas about the MQ so it's by no means a subject that is being ignored. But if you have an idea or suggestion or something then it's certainly worthwhile posting it into the lore section. Even if it doesn't make it into the MQ it might still be used.

[SwedishFish]

I can definitely see where you are coming from. In fact, that's very true about people writing, in the sense that people shouldn't assume they have input just because they can write. It is insulting and I saw it happen some when I was leading. My problem is that I can only contribute aesthetically, for I am neither good at modding nor do my computers have very good processing.
But it is good to know that there is a place that I can put my ideas. I hope I didn't trigger any unneeded irritations, I apologize if I did and I respect your dedication.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Not at all, SwedishFish! There's always a danger that I might sound critical of people on forums as you can never tell by a tone of voice how someone's really expressing themselves. Anyway, you'll always be welcome here. You started this! =)

Nevertheless, everyone must recognise that modders are the most precious commodity we have as a team. We always miss the expertise of the likes of Senten on that front...

[Lore_Naga]

Hi,

Ok well that was quite off-topic,
Im going to write up some quest ideas and post them here or in another thread,When i get my scanner ill make some concept art for BM (Will be 3 weeks.... hopefully,
As long as i dont need to spend money on something unimportant that i think ill be able to get it) Also my internet should be fixed next week so i could be able to mod by next week.... Lets just hope.

Remember people only modded oblivion's quests because they were unhappy that was no choice at all(Ends up you being able to pick the good side,
The dark brotherhood is kinda evil in a sense we get to assassinate people, Thieves Guild was a load of crap i thought because well in the end the no good annoying gray fox makes you do his dirty work and then gives you his curse!
I found nothink in the thieves guild rewarding.... No choice of being evil or good and not being able to choose different paths?)
Please note that the fighters guild of tamriel and black marsh will be related
(I have already talked to ibsen about this and he likes my ideas, But i dont want them to be just "Idea's" i want to implement them so i want my technician over but i have to wait like half a week)
Ok lets start off simple The Fighters Guild of tamriel and The Fighters Guild of Blackmarsh should be related for one reason there both in the same company so..... Lets say im the Guild Leader of the tamriel one and the quest is that i get told from the dark elf sub-leader of the fighters guild that we need to expand our operations into Black Marsh.
(Ok if its a quest we could simply put the quest marker in the other worldspace = Black Marsh and when the player goes to blackmarsh he/she can find the quest marker... Simples)
I pick my recruits and send them into blackmarsh,
I do and i hear news in a few days of there death so i gather an expedition party and set off to find what happened to them and leave the dark elf sub-leader in charge for now, To be continued........
(This should include finding the recruits,finding out what happened to them, helping the people of the marsh, building a new guild village, recruiting new members, fighting giant monsters, doing a lot of sub-quests to either stop the oppresive imperials or help the imperials,Good and Evil)

Ok now someone will ask what if im a recruit of the normal fighters guild?
The Guild Leader picks you to be in this expedition and you basicly get a little more helping the people of the marsh quests so they allow you into the marsh and then you get to do all the others quests and help funding money for the guild so that you can build a village....
1 difference in being a recruit and going to the marsh and being the guild leader and going to the marsh,
If your the recruit you get to be The Blackmarsh Guild Leader and if your not a recruit and you are the leader you "Pick" someone to be the leader it would be too much work looking after two guilds in two regions,
So one be's 1 leader and the other be's the other leader,Simples.
(Ok now i move onto how the good and evil part would work,
If you are good you help the people of the marsh and the guild. Simples, If you are evil however you have to help the oppresive imperials put there imperialism in the marsh so.....
In natural order you have to help the Blackwood Co. That still is alive in blackmarsh only has been wiped out in Tamriel,
Eventully you move away so much from the fighters guild that the place you built in blackmarsh and your peoples are now Blackwood Co. but you order your people still,
You have one last fight on the border of blackmarsh with the fighters guild and you win thus allowing your Blackwood Co. Group to survive and well you become Your Group's Boss. Evil and Simples)

One last thing for people who dont like the armor worn by the fighters guild or blackwood co. In the barracks in Blackmarsh/
(Remember only recruits of the tamriel fighters guild can do this,
If you are greedy and want to be both leaders thats just plain stupid Ok so dont say"I think being both leaders would be alright for me" I work as a Youth Worker and my Boss who has been a Youth Worker for many years cant handle 2 Youth Clubs etc... So how is someone supposed to handle 2 Regioned Guild's anyway i hate that Over Leadership Feeling in oblivion its like being a lord of a manor and then going out and killing ogres its just plain stupid! Rich are lazy and Poor are not lazy,
Clearly shown in the thieves guild! Ok seeming we got that sorted ill move on)
/You can change the armor by putting armor in peoples chests or a main armor or weapon supply chest and there could be a script for the person to go in the barracks and equip or take the item.

Ok let me hear your idea's,I might write down some quests soon but i will only if i get a clear vote on my idea.

Thanks for listening.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Okay, I did like the idea of negotiations with the Tamriel guild but I'm not too keen on actually affecting anything in the vanilla WS. It's important to guard against errors for future plans and that could be one area that causes potential problems AFAIK but I could talk to sandor about it and see if it's workable.

The idea at the moment is that you are basically THE leader of the Guild from the start which you gradually build up so this follows on from that. I think we're best off with just one 'strand' though. Becoming either a good/evil leader sounds a bit too ambitious and troublesome for me.

Therefore, it will need to be carefully constructed by the leader taking a series of decisions which might affect the allegiances of the Guild and its general reputation. Some things you might be able to 'get away with' such as working with the Blackwood Co. but others you will want to be recognised for (the 'good' quests).

Try 'chunking up' your ideas, LN. It's difficult to follow the flow of your writing at times but if you set it up like a flowchart or something with a series of numbered stages then it will be easier for me to see where you're going with it. Anyway, I'm in favour.

[Lore_Naga]

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: Ok ill make a key chart and all just because you said it-
1.Lore_Naga gets annoyed and laughs his head about what ibsen said on paragraph 5.
2.Lore_Naga replys to paragraph 3.
3.Lore_Naga replys to paragraph 2.
4.Lore_Naga replys to paragraph 1.
____________________________________________________________________

1.Ok ill make a key chart from now on for your special use :lmao: ,
You expect me to make a flowchart! xD You do say the most silly of things sometimes.

2.Remember people hate the hock and cock of oblivion as long as you remember that then you won't be getting any people complaining, There should always be some kind of Good and Evil side, You can't have the ying without the yang.

3.So what you choose the good side over the evil i bet,
Have you seen people's mods most of them are Black Clothing Mods now i dont know much people that wear black clothing for a good reason (Maybe for special occasions or its the latest fashion)
Anyway its just that i dont want the blackmarsh fighters guild getting flamed to pieces by blackmarsh fans because they say we always get a goody goody gum drop ending its good to have diverse ending,
The main quest was total failure because 1. you cant kill mehrunes dagon and save tamriel like you should have done 2. Martin gets killed 3. No emperor 4. No diversity in quests its always go and help martin and eventully martin dies,
If i had my way i would sell that damm amulet of kings to the mythic dawn and get me some money to sail to summerset isles.

4.Ok go talk to sandor.

Ok is that constructive enough for people to read?