Gideon

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Originally posted by PhiniusMaster
....If you want to do the re-textures yourself....

Preferably not with everything I'm doing lately... ....busybusybusy!

[PhiniusMaster]

Just a quicky, I'm using the Cheydinhal buildings for all the guild and upper/middle class stuff, what should I use for the lower class area? Bravil stuff? Waterfront stuff? A mix? Also, I've uploaded a layout for you to give me approval on before I start really making the place look good and setting the buildings in their final locations.

What is the source of the stream? Can I just have it coming through a grate of some sort and do there need to be dementia buildings in the lower class area on across from the stream? What exactly are the two 'castle buildings' on the south side? Where are their exteriors in the CS? Anyway, let me know if my layout looks good.

[DoZeNt]

xD Sure, They look good, but aren't there too many UC buildings for Gideo?

In fact, I can quickly retexture the Cheydinal buildings, if needed.

[PhiniusMaster]

But that's just it, I'm not really sure what to put in those places? Should I just swap a couple of the UC houses with the MC ones? Should I expand the lower class shack district a little perhaps? Anyway, I'll wait for Ibsen's Ghost to get back to me about my previous post.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Nice layout drawing....love the roads! :goodjob:

Bravil buildings wouldn't work IMO, especially as we have used those already in Stormhold and Tenmar Wall, where the Jungle might accommodate them well enough. But when considering what to do with Gideon I felt we were not making enough of the SI resources. The New Sheoth buildings are too complicated to simply fit into a city (just look at the meshes and you'll see what I mean) but I do like the Dementia houses.

You can find the buildings I'm referring to under Static-Architecture-Settlements. They're the Dementia houses 01-04. They appear to fit okay with Helborne's textures but I wanted to test them in-game just to check. Otherwise, it might be worthwhile altering them a little, perhaps by combining the textures in NifSkope....

That's where the 'swamp gardens' idea came from where the idea was to create a particularly filthy slum region with some arches and balconies. We could get away with using a limited number of SI flora as well and citizens might have to wade through ankle-deep swampwater in some parts. Some of the locals might feel more at home like that. =)

As for the water source, I had planned on using the Static-Dungeons-Sewers-sewerTunnelExitExterior01 model. If you fit it carefully and at the right angle then it fits neatly into the supporting pillars in the City Walls.

Just a few further points about the water that you may not know about:

When you modify the height map then it affects the land outside of the city too but, as I've deliberately left this area alone then you should be able to do as you wish with the river after that and, if it logically extends elsewhere beyond the walls then I can set up a small river, perhaps running out to sea towards the West when you're done. The sewer should look okay at either end.

Having checked the landscape, you're best bet when setting up the water is probably to set the water's height to about 1750. I just tried that now and it seemed to be the right height for easily making little pools besides the main stream.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

This is just a rough idea but I'd originally planned to have something like this....the streams and water aren't fully developed but I liked the look of the maniabridge from Static-Architecture-Bridges and I'd considered using it. With the new archive, you should have some palisade fencing under the Static-blackmarsh-Architecture-Hixinoag folder or you could try Static-Architecture-Kvatch-WoodBarricade as we used for Sloughpoint in order to mark out the lower class region.

There's always the danger of having a jumble of textures though when you're creating something fresh and original with vanilla models.

[PhiniusMaster]

Mkay, I think the two building types (helborne's and the dementia houses) could maybe borrow some stuff off each other. The dementia houses look really marshy and mucked up, so maybe some of their wall textures could be given to helborne's, while some of helborne's detail and roof textures could be slapped onto the dementia houses? Just an idea ofcourse. Also, I'm trying ATM to teach myself how to go through a process like the one I just mentioned in Nifskope, so I might even be able to do it myself and post the results for you to see. Anyway, as always, I'll get back to you.

EDIT: I've made a new copy of the palisades, with a different name (dont worry), that use a texture from the dementia houses' wooden beams so that they fit better in the lower class area. Will you need me to send you the new .nif file? I'm not sure about how these things work when they use BSA resources, will the BM BSA need to have both the .nif and the SI dementia texture in it now or just the .nif? Let me know. Thanks!

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Just the .nif. You basically need to have unpacked the original vanilla texture so that NifSkope points directly to it. I can do this if you don't know how but it sounds like it's worked. And as long as you're using existing textures then adding another mesh file shouldn't hurt the filesize too badly. Anyway, see how it goes and yes, I'll need the .nif files to add to the archive.

In the meantime, I just uploaded the new Gideon models that Koniption sent me. You can download them here: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1267925/Gideon%20Models.rar . Just put them into the meshes-blackmarsh-architecture-Gideon folder and then right-click on the object window to enter them into the CS. Some of the models are already there so you just need to replace the .nifs

Good luck with getting the textures right. Remember that you don't have to keep too strictly to my own ideas.....as long as we end up with a gloomy, dirty, crime-ridden city (that's also perhaps strangely attractive). :goodjob:

[PhiniusMaster]

So it's all good if I modify which texture resources are being put to use on koniption's new buildings a bit? I'm just planning on using cheydinhal or dementia rooves and foundation stone textures based on whether the buildings are in LC or MC/UC areas. Also, the Lower Class area is shaping up really nicely, I've put it on banks of the stream, which is particularly shallow in that area, and there are some marshy puddle areas in there too. Let me know if you ever want some screenies of what I've done so far. It's lookin' pretty good with the mild clutter, flora, and vertex shading. And do you think it would bloat the BSA too much if I made new .nifs for all the cheydinhal buildings so they don't look so much like..well...cheydinhal buildings?

EDIT: Well, I've officially laid out and vertex shaded all the buildings, the LC area is almost complete, I've finished the statue in the middle of the city, I've made a couple nice garden areas. All that's left now are some finishing tree/rock fillers, the graveyard, and the castle gardens. After that comes pathing the whole place but that's another story.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Sounds fantastic, PH! :goodjob:

Yes, screenshots would be nice because then you may get some useful feedback but they're nonetheless optional. As the previous team seemed to make a habit of retexturing almost every vanilla model they used in a settlement then I see no reason why we should change this policy for what will be, in the beta release, probably our most important city and the centre of a lot of activity.

Having said that, I would ditch the Skingrad buildings entirely and just bear in mind that, if you have only one or two of one type of Cheydinhal building, and it's not a particularly great one, then you might get rid of it and replace it with a more commonly used one. Although this may reduce the house variety, you should still have a decent set of buildings with the Cheydinhal set and the LC houses put together.