Hist trees contraversy

[KuKulzA]

alright, there's been lots of contreversy about Hist trees... ESForums discussion
now the Argonians revere them as holy, and the highest concetration of these ancient trees is in central Argonia, in the large Hist-forests. Now there have been rumors of Hist-sap producing great armor, Hist trees being a sort of ancestor for Argonians, licking Hist trees can transform Argonians, and also the fact that their sap can be a hallucinogen.


So let's discuss the validity of these issues.... and see if they are real or fake

1. Hist-sap armor coveted by Dunmer
2. ancestral knowledge stored in the Hist
3. licking causing transformation in Argonians
4. sap is a hallucinogen



these are my opinions...

I believe that Hist sap when made into a resin CAN form armor.... I don't think it is quite as great as tales make it seem. Also, I don't know of anythin OFFICIAL saying that that is true, sounds like fanfiction if you ask me... but sure, resin made from sap can be useful for gluing and armor and stuff

the ancestral knowledge... stored in a Hist tree.... I think it is possible... perhaps only Argonians can access this and so outsiders claim it is false but can't really tell

about the transformations.... I heard somewhere that Argonians will morph into different forms in their life-time when they lick a Hist and ?choose? to change? This might explain the "winged Sarpa" and the "toad-like Paatru" and the Naga....

then at the end there is the thing about the sap being a hallucinogen, I think it is.... but that it is only one property of the Hist, and most of these can only be accessed by Argonians as for thousands of yars they have evolved and lived among to roots of the Hist... they probably know more of the Hist and its magical properties than we do....





alright, so let's discuss these four topics concerning the Hist... very very very important to this mod

[Ebonyknight]

It can also be a drug

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by Ebonyknight
It can also be a drug

yeah, but maybe that is only one property.... mayb the more spiritual properties of the Hist are only accessible by the Argonians who evolved with the Hist...

[SwedishFish]

I read in the Imperial Library that licking a hist tree is a rite of passage for young Argonians. Maybe the Hist tree can be all of these things if we play our cards right and fill in some blanks.

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by SwedishFish
I read in the Imperial Library that licking a hist tree is a rite of passage for young Argonians. Maybe the Hist tree can be all of these things if we play our cards right and fill in some blanks.

that's what I was thinking... maybe it can sorta be an armor, maybe it can be a drug, maybe it can be an ancestral thing for Argonians maybe it CAN help them transform... maybe all of it yet nothing in too much detail... we'll just say "hey, Argonians and Hist have a relationship we don't fully understand"

[D.Foxy]

What is the central feature of Argonia? Marshes and Disease, of course. And although Argonians are borh with a resistance to disease, it doesn't seem to be logical that they are totally immune. Thus the Argonians have developed scaly skin to fight off parasites as well has having a powerful immune system (BTW in RL the counterparts of the Argonians are the Komodo Lizards of Australia, which carry so many germs in their stinking mouths that their bite is poisonous, and yet if they bite each other their immune systems shrug it off)

But - even Argonians must need medicine. So couldn't the reason why they revere the tree be that its sap is a powerful medicine? This sounds logical. Plants also have to have resistance against viral and bacterial infections, and they can produce antibiotics natually (Penicillin was discovered in MUSHROOMS!)

Tree sap and resins are usually glue. We know that glued armours existed in ancient history. And modern Kevlar armour is made from Kevlar threads glued together. So Argonian armour - many tiny balls of hard, hard crystals (say, diamond?) glued together in a resin? If that could be done, it would be almost as strong as Daedric, but far lighter! The penalty (as with all glued armours IRL) is that it would not be very durable: you would need to be continually repairing it.

[KuKulzA]

from what I can see... the Hist gives Argonians everything they need (sorta)....

• sap can be a sort of temporary steriod to increase strength
  
• can hold the souls of their ancestors accessed via rituals
  
• living among the roots can provide refuge and habitation
  
• resin can make glue which in turn can make armor
  
• herbal treatments can come from different parts of the Hist
  
  these must have been important to early primitive argonians... increase strength to fight off larger predators when cornered... speaking to ancestors for guidance and counsel.... a refuge amon the root of the Hist... light armor and strong glue for tools and protections... herbal treatments to heal wounds and cure diseases... WONDER TREE
  I bet that is how Argonians evolved... from tree-skinks crawling around the tree, eventually something hapened between it and the tree starting it on a new path of evolution

[raggidman]

Lotsa nice ideas folks. My two-pennies is that the ancestor thing is too Morrowindy, and I do not see them used for habitation (though it is good to see that you are putting thought in to the habitation thing) because not only it does not work with the given lore (we would have read about that as it is observable) that idea conflicts with the sap-hallucinogen thing.

Maybe the tree has an area affect that wards off predators (other than Argonians) so that they associate the trees with peaceful meditation... but that is as far as I would be comfortable with the habitation thing...

I would put forward the concept of memory crystals again here - as you might have resin crystals = think Amber = a stone that comes from resin...?

It could be that Argonians give and take memories by licking the sap and ingesting the crystals etc = they then have to process the information = what appears to be a trance or religious experience... and maybe once upon a time that was exactly what it was considered to be and nothing other. Nowadays it may still be something very deep, but also is much better understood?

Also you might consider that the Hist has an interdimensional aspect = connected spiritually to another plane or is the outward manifestation of an other-dimensional being?

So as you suggest, maybe they weeere tree skinks, and evolved under the guidance, or to the amusement of the Hist beings?

The Resin Armor should be med armor (that is what the Argonians are historically famous for wearing - read the Lore) and I like the idea of material suspended in the resin, Foxey.

However, consider the enormous strength that is in sheaves of bamboo when they are used by Far eastern construction companies instead of iron or steel to build skyscrapers. Maybe the Argonians have another plant or other material that they combine with the resin, and one that helps them to hide and swim etc in the swamp? Diamonds is a bit too flashy for me...

[SwedishFish]

Hist-Amber Jawbreakers!

[The Old Ye Bard]

I don't beleive that the hist armour would be designed for them to blend into the swamp as the already have really good natrul camoflauge, it would probably be more ceremonial and/or for guards.