Bal Molagmer. replacement of the Vvar thieves guild?

[Ebonyknight]

4 bases of operation

1 in Sadrith Mora

1 in Balmora

1 in Ald-Ruhn


1 manor in the Nice area where the plantations are but no1 knows it a HQ everyone thinks its a plantation but they dont know is that underground the manor is a training area for Bal Molagers who are preparing for war on Dres plantation.

[WhiteWizard]

Doesn't he deserve a fishy stick or something like that?

[KuKulzA]

no WhiteWizard
I'm a creative mod leader.... fishy stick isn't my thing... thats over at ESForums...


so... you have any ideas for Bal Molagmer?

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Originally posted by Ebonyknight
4 bases of operation
1 in Sadrith Mora
1 in Balmora
1 in Ald-Ruhn
1 manor in the Nice area where the plantations are but no1 knows it a HQ everyone thinks its a plantation but they dont know is that underground the manor is a training area for Bal Molagers who are preparing for war on Dres plantation.

no no, you're missing the point.... they DON'T want to have obvious places, and they are too small to spread out... seriously...
we are going by three themes...
1. Bal Molagmer are robin hoods
They are from ancient Dunmer legends. Now they are remnants Guild Thieves and emulate the legendary Bal Molagmer. Originally this was to boost the image of the Guild Thieves on Vvardenfell but now they stand alone, infact they do not want to be known as ex-Guild Thieves or the Camonna will come with axes and knives and clubs the beat the living sh...
2. Bal Molagmer will be somewhat tied to Temple
We decided that the Bal Molagmer were found by Temple agents/authorities/inquisitors. The Temple decided to help them since robin hood folks appeal to the poor and if championed by the Temple, the Tribunal Temple coul dget some more support from people whos faith was wavering. Also, the Temple recognizes that a semi-peaceful Bal Molagmer is much better than a racist criminal syndicate which would cause troubles in politics. Also the fact they go by Bal Molagmer and are affiliated with the Temple makes the Temple seem like it is hearkening back to the old traditions of the Dunmer.
3. Bal Molagmer want to stay small/secret and hit the Camonna back
If they form any semi-large groups they will be found and slaughtered, no doubt about it. The old Thieves Guild was so public, people always knew where they were or who was who. This was because Houses and Imperials had tight control and tended to favor Guild Thieves over Camonna thugs. Now that theres a bit of trouble brewing and turmoil, and guards being sent off to train for war and other stuff, Camonna struck. So the Bal Molagmer want to stay small, act as the good guys and quietly whittle down the Camonnas.

therefore... i don't think they want to spread out if they are currently only like 5-8 or so people. Remember most of the Thieves Guild should be dead or very soon after you arrive on Vvardenfell... I don't think they even want bases of operation... cause this means its a place they will always return to, and if anyone is tracking them, they're screwed...

but I think one secret place is good... I am thinking someplace near a Temple or in a Temple as the Temple is harboring them...

[Ebonyknight]

A base of operations in the Temple of Suran or Vos a base underneath its training area, sleep quarters, assets, armorery, eating and recreation quarter and Headmaster Office. And Id say about 12 people.

Each with 1 quest and the Guild Master has 3 quests sounds perfect EH

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by Ebonyknight
A base of operations in the Temple of Suran or Vos a base underneath its training area, sleep quarters, assets, armorery, eating and recreation quarter and Headmaster Office. And Id say about 12 people.

Each with 1 quest and the Guild Master has 3 quests sounds perfect EH

Suran might actually work...
near Camonna HQ... in a quiet place.... right next to a Camonna club... in the Temple... near the Ascadian where lots of poor tenant farmers on lands owned by Hlaalu nobles... hrug: sounds cool

[grumbler]

I like Molag Mar even better: lots of Temple influence there (CT would find it more difficult to bribe people who have been associated with the Temple so long), but with the drying-up of the pilgrimage business, there are unused facilities there, and CT assassins would, as strangers, stick out. Good transportation links are also important.

I like the idea of the vengence factor, but think we could work that into the storyline without making the whole Bal Molagmer necessarily be dedicated to the eradication of the Comonna Tong. The bulk of the organization could be dedicated to simply the "Robin Hood/Temple Justice" mission without wanting any violent encounters with the CT at all, while the player and maybe the Guildmaster (who is the sibling, perhaps, of the Thieve's Guild friend in IATE's concept) want to violently solve the CT problem.

Thus the player would be getting quests in the Bal Molagmer, but also tidbits of information from the Bal Molagmer guildmaster, simnply telling him once in a while who the identified CT members are.

I don't think we want the CT to be wiped out; when the guildmaster turns over the Bal Molagmer to the player, maybe that is the end of the tips on who the CT members are, so that non-quest "questline" simply stops. Whether the player actually goes and kills the CT members he/she knows about is struictly up to him/her; all he/she gets is the loot from the corpses and the satisfaction of avenging a "friend"'s death.

[KuKulzA]

no they can't wipe out the Camonna Tong, and it isn't about wiping out the Tong, but these guys saw their buddies get chopped up and their brains splattered across the wall... you know what I mean?
they DO want to get back at the Camonna Tong here and there, but a group of like 6 people aren't going to be able to do that much. Plus, they have decided to dedicate themselves to the cause of the Bal Molagmer...

what would be interesting though is if as the player you and Jim Stacey can decide whether to get back at the Tong or totally start anew as this new robin hood group emulating the old Bal Molagmer... and if you go with the second you will have Temple support, if not you will suddenly be up against the Temple and that makes for a more bloody and exciting but also much much more dangerous set of quests? hrug:

[Sericho]

Great ideas, IAMTHEEMPEROR! Including the Sword of White Woe would be awesome, i think. A symbolic weapon, wielded by the leader of the Bal Molagmer maybe? Also, i really like the part about the thieves guild being destroyed after you join, and you witnessing it, instead of it already being gone. I think that there could be a better way of meeting the Bal Molagmer, though. Let's say you have to prove yourself selfless enough to join without you knowing your being tested. Let's say that after the thieves guild is completely destroyed, there are chances for certain situations to occur, and depending on your responses you will either be contacted by the Bal Molagmer or ignored. There should be serious losses at stake for the good things you do in these situations, and since you don't know you're being tested, you can't just pretend to be good so you can join the Bal Molagmer. Here are a few examples:

1) You're walking by the plaza in Balmora, and you see a beggar getting picked on by a guard. You can either talk to the guard or talk to the beggar, both will ask for your help. Your choices:
a. join in the guard's fun by taunting or attacking the beggar
b. help the beggar by:
aa. attacking the guard
bb. tricking the guard into leaving the beggar alone (tell him that you are good friends with one of his superiors, who absolutely hates people who pick on the defenseless.)
cc. threatening the guard
dd. using reverse psychology to get rid of the guard

2) Walking the streets of suran, you come across a distraught woman who is begging for someone to rid her house of a spirit that has recently began making itself known, haunting her and scaring her to no end. She is offering an extremely large reward. Deciding to check out the spirit, you arm yourself with an enchanted weapon and walk in the house. You are almost immediately faced with the ghost, who doesn't attack you but instead tries to speak with you. She tells you that an enemy of the house's current owner, an ex-lover mad with anger and jealousy, rose her spirit from the dead and bound it to her house to get revenge. She needs a portion of someone's life force if she is ever going to return to the afterlife, and it's only a matter of time before she is permanently stuck in-between planes. You observe that it is also possible to take her own life force with a soul gem and strengthen your own. You can:
a. Destroyl the ghost, claim reward
b. Destroy the ghost, claim strengthened life force(+20 health, permanently) and claim reward
c. Give up life force (-20 health, permanently) and claim reward
d. Give up life force (-20 health, permanently) and refuse reward politely

3) An old war hero asks you, out of desperation, to steal back a powerful sword that a guard took from him years ago. It was his prized possession, and the faithful weapon he used throughout his years in the legion. You sneak into the guard's home and take the sword. It is even more powerful than you expected, worthy of replacing your current weapon. You observe that the old man is weak and could do nothing to stop you if you decided to just keep it. You can:
a. Return the sword to the owner, refusing any reward whatsoever.
b. Return the sword and accept the best reward the old man can give you.
c. Keep the sword, and steal the old man's money.
d. Keep the sword, despite the old man's pleas.
e. Keep the sword and use it to kill the old man.
c. Keep the sword and lie, saying that you couldn't find it or that it had been sold.

So if you handle all of these situations in the most robin hood-ish way possible, the Bal Molagmer will KNOW you are worthy to join them, and contact you. They were already aware of your skills as a thief when you joined the TG, now they know of your good intentions.

I really like the idea of Molag Mar being the HQ. Hmm...maybe Molag Mar was also destroyed by Daedra during the invasion? The Bal Molagmer then could have created rumors of angry spirits or something, and taken the ruins of the canton as their own secret base of operations.

Also, i think that there should definately be more than just 6-8 Bal Molagmer. They should be large and rapidly gaining power, but at the same time virtually untrackable, or undetectable. They could have people monitoring the CT at all times, so they always know their next move.

So yeah. Hey...i seem to be missing two cents...

[KuKulzA]

good ideas...
as for the size of the Bal Molagmer I think it should start small and end a bit bigger (maybe recruiting)

but remember... these are the small elite few in the Thieves Guild in this small Bal Molagmer... until Thieves Guild is almost killed off (except for a few and the Bal Molagmer ones) so they will grow.... but not until things are sorted out

yes, 6 years is enough for a group to grow, but remeber, originally it weasn't Jim Stacey's plan to have it big, it was supposed to be small.... now things might change, but they don't want to be too big... why? cause Temple wouldn't appreciate a bunch of 'noble' crooksgetting too big... secondly, if they get too big they will start being more well known in the underground and Camonna Tong can always 'persuade' a fence to squeal...

plus keeping it small makes it easier to track down if some one betrays the group... :yes:

[Ebonyknight]

A saying in how the Thieves guild is being wiped out lets say. You go to balmora and see all of them killed you go to Ald-ruhn and see that they are all killed and then cammong tong claim the 2 taverns as their turf then you go to Sadrith Mora and see that the thieves have joined the cammong tong.