Cerro Vampires

[bob196045]

Howdy


The Cerro Vampires were discussed to be Silgrad's Very own Vampire Clan

See this Thread:

Cerro (Silgrad's native vampire clan)


If we are going to make this a reality we must have serious discussion of thier existance


What is their Uniqueness
What is the History
What is the Future
What Role (if any) do they play in the "Big Picture" of events
Where do they live
What is their Hiarchy

Im sure theirs other things but for now that may be enough

For ease of understanding I would prefer if we take one topic at a time until it is finalized and then move on.

So I think the first topic should be " History "

For this we need any of the individuals who had concepted this idea

I know RW and Deus and Ladyluck had their hands in it so maybe we can get their thoughts...... I will send them a PM and see what we get

Bob (evil Bob)

[raggidman]

righto... what I will do is try to put a number of the ideas we discussed n that long thread into one shorter post - please forgive if they are mostly mine ... it saeemed to me that I incorporated others' ideas into my own structure, and it was fairly popular at the time.

re loyalty and rebellion:

rm: I think this is now true, and might have always been so, but there are always rebels: were not the Tribunal Rebels of a sort who defied the Velothi teachings in favour of starting their own religion in response to the threat from Red Mountain? and the original exiles from Summerset Isle were likely rebels also?

So perhaps these staunch Redorans decided to sacrifice themselves for the greater good and became Vampires at a time when they despaired of deliverance, or the first might have actually been an Imperial trying to undermine ST by corrupting the Redoran military, but his plan backfired and instead he created a secret core within the burgh that is dedicated to ensuring that ST will never fall to outside threat? Or something...some kinda storyline reeking of desperate times?

rm: Well you could create a scenario which required the clan to have a small base from which the younger ones would sortie on their hunts...

And surely the idea is that Vampires are creepy??? What an thought. Thanks Siegfried!

Don't forget that the original idea (as Quentin reminds us) is that the main Cerro Den would be up in the Mountains. But if we go with the Ancients in the Main Base and youngsters out hunting then you have loads of choice for locating minor bases for individual quests.

siegfried: But I expect that there is a 'light, civilised feel' to Ayelid ruins in Oblivion, whereas Tombs are usually darker. And we have differing sides to our Cerros, with Harakiri's and my idealistic Redoran freedom fighters and the 'darker side' of the old campaigners, so why not retain a duality of nature and have that reflected in their main base with an Ayelid ruin on the surface that connects to something darker...

If handled well this could provide a powerful frisson to the unwary explorer.

...and it could be that even in the darkest of their darknesses there remains something of Redoran nobility that might almost be redeeming. I do get a bit tired of evil being nothing but evil and good being nothing but good - which is what attracted me to ES in the first place.

I would also remind everyone about my early idea of the Imperial Vampire coming to Morrowind's ST to corrupt the populace aeons ago, and being defeated by the Redorans' valor - but not w/out cost, for the pathos of the Tale is that the defenders themselves succumbed - there I think is a Tale for a true bard to bring to life...with delicacy: 'Love, Lies, Bleeding'.

Redoran at Heart
A second tale might be of an internal struggle between the heroes and the victims of the Imperial who seek their downfall that they might fulfill their master's ambition to corrupt the Heart of Redoran.

A Last Surviving Hero
But although the ancients were contained, only one of our heroes survived. Natch our Last Surviving Hero would have to have an edge - his alchemy...snip... and secret stuff. Maybe he was changed in some way? And he might have rescued youngsters down the centuries who'se spirits he is trying to save = eventually they are the hunters who provide the ingredients that keep the other ancients pacified or contained or whatever.

So if the player were to aid them when they believed they had failed...that would be the positive that might lead to their accepting the player...

Quentin Fortune: The secret hideout of Clan Cerro is somewhere in the Velothi Mountains, if I remember correctly, and from what I recall of the original idea, they're not quite the rebel-warrior type, who are interested in politocal agendas.

Just for information.

rm: Another avenue that I considered was alchemy - maybe unusual formulae? As the basis for some of their powers?

Say they started out by breaking away from the Redoran traditional pursuit of combat along the alchemical paths that led to their becoming infected...?

So not warriors
not really rogues
not spellcasters

unusually adept alchemists...

KuKulzA: 2. alchemists...
...perhaps this was a native Dunmer Vampire clan.... when they came into Morrowind they needed to adapt to the new land and wildlife... and as well as new enemies... Dwemer....
so they became foragers.... hunters... and alchemists.... they needed to evade the zealous Chimer knights and the meticulous Dwemer soldiers...
so they became hunters.... killing animals, rarely people.... trying to stay hidden.... trying to strengthen them and make themselves invisible to the eye....
they regret their existence and want to return to normal....
they are masters of illusion and alchemy... as they forage for their ingredients they must evade enemies....

and what has all this alchemy been for? they seek a cure for their vampirism...
their powers have made them somewhat transparent and silent foragers.... always hiding
their needs have made them expert alchemists... but with no cure for their greatest ailment

syko: I really liked the idea of the clan beginning with the initial decision of some Redoran military members seeking to strengthen themselves in order to insure Silgrad's survival against the Imperials. If this is one idea you wish to pursue, I think it would warrant an interesting present day group of vampires, at least if they still remained vigilant in their beliefs. I would love to see a clan of benevolent vampires who dont see their powers as a curse or a blessing, but rather a means that allows them to further help the Dunmer population in Silgrad. Perhaps they would go so far as to only prey on non-native peoples and act as a kind of unseen police force, helping to make the populace safe even though they themeselves are resented for being blood-thirtsy beasts. I don't know how true to lore this is, but it would certainly help the clan stick out from the other vampires, as well as open up many interesting options and plotlines.

rm: So think assassins - not open combat, but rather subterfuge...maybe they are so good at alchemy and concealment that no one knows about them - except, briefly, their victims.

That way both the alchemy and syko's benevolent aspects are accounted for?

Also, being Redoran they must have started out with warrior/martial skills, but those would have been totally absorbed by their dedication to their chosen role and retuned to the assassin/hunter's craft over the decades, centuries and even millenia? Would depend how old they really are...what if they are chimer!? They might have golden skins? Like the Tribunal? Aaaand be true Velothi?

KuKulzA: so what is left? stealth warrior?

I am thinking that perhaps they have a dark story...
like maybe they were Chimer... and whenthe Nords invaded Morrowind, the Chimer and the Chimer fought one another, the Chimer and the Dwemer fought one another and the Nords were also fighting all of them above...
perhaps this group of warrior vampires was ousted from their martial vampiric role by the Nordic Quarra bloodline... accidentally imported by the Nords....
so as the Cerro were slowly killed off, they had to develope stealthy skills to avoid detection...
they vowed to drive the foreign Vampires and the Nords out of Morrowind...
and so they lived in what is now the Redoran district killing Nords as they came into Morrowind and leaving Dwemer and Chimer unscathed
but soon Nerevar arose and he and Dumac united the Chimer and the Dwemer against the Nords during their war of succession... and Resdayn (another name for Morrowind) was at peace for the while

soon, the secret vampire clan had no role as the defense of the borders was now done by Dwemer or Chimer guards...
and it, like the other Vampire clans, had to go into hiding....

but then, along came the Imperials... and the Cerro awoke... however, they could no longer hunt their vampire enemies as they were on Vvardenfell and passage to Vvardenfell undetected was hard...
and so they contented themselves to killing Imperials whenever possible... but not openly since the Dunmer would not understand their motives and hated Vampires, necromancy, and other mer, men and beastfolk...

KuKulzA: it came from my inspiration for a Redoran Rangers type of group that would have guerilla warfare trying to drive out outlanders.... but hey, add a bit of vampire?

Razorwing: I like a lot of the ideas suggested in this thread.

So maybe Cerro uses racism as a way of justifying their heinous actions to themselves? Over time their hatred of non-Dunmer have been institutionalized and they think up reasons for themselves why it's actually a good thing for them to kill outlanders? And the fact that doing so sustains and empowers them is a "positive side-effect" -- in their own minds, that is. Evil with a conscience, so to speak... and their rationalization would work well as long there are outlanders available for hunting. They might have other values as well, like not killing children; all adding up to them being able to live with themselves. It would be so cool if that general angle could be conveyed to the player, I think, i.e. not make them auto-attack the player if he visits them.

Might make sense to have a Cammona Tong tie-in? They passionately hate outlanders so they might try to use Cerro for their own agenda. Heck, maybe they even supply Cerro with "death lists" in exchange for Cammona Tong pulling strings to keep them from being eradicated by the authorities?

The alchemy angle would add a lot of uniqueness, and I definitely think we should go with it. I would imagine fighting an opponent who has a wide range of potions at his disposal would be an interesting challenge for players accustomed to just facing weapons and magic.

I also think the clan could be made out to have its roots in House Redoran, as well as much of the other ideas on their history KuKulzA suggests. The question is how to convey that to the player, hmm hmm. Maybe one of the vampires is keeping a record of their history, with the intent of giving an accurate description of who they are and what they did in this world, as seen from their eyes, should they ever be exterminated? I think that could tie in well with the sorrow and soulfulness of their clan.

Ooh, and in one form or another we should definitely have custom music for their headquarter! Any ideas on that?

KuKulzA: EDIT:
however, Quentin says they aren't warrior types... Razorwing says there is nothing REALLYestablished on them....
and I say they should be honor bound Chimer/Dunmer who vowed to use their Vampiric powers to drive out invaders

syko: I think the ideas razorwing presented are very good and would certainly make for a unique and interesting clan. But, if you do continue in that direction, what would you do if the player were not a Dunmer? I would think even if you were bitten by a Cerro and became one of them, that they would still exile you, were you an outlander.

KuKulzA: umm... Raggidman.... you have a point there.... though everyone has made good ideas... such as my whole hunter/stealth/noble vampire idea... and the alchemy idea... and what-not.... we are all attached to our own

to be continued...

Onwards and upwards:

Razorwing: In any case I bet there are plenty of Cerro things we can discuss in the meantime while we wait for the vote on their headquarters to be settled.

We've talked about their more endearing sides, like to some extent feeling shame and sorrow and potentially having values like not taking lives of children. But if we don't highlight their evil side as well they'd come out looking like pansies. For instance, should they keep a 'cupboard' of imprisoned future victims? (which the player can save if he chooses to try) Should there be visible signs of expent victims, like corpses?

Whom would they consider to be worthy of joining them, i.e. infect without slaying? From the player's point-of-view it would be if they lashed him and he got away from them still breathing; but besides the player angle, do they sometimes recruit new members?

Would someone care to research if there's freeware music on the net that could be suitable for the location?

Does anyone think they should be made a joinable faction, and if so, do you have any quest ideas?

KuKulzA: okay.... I've an idea...
how about they paralyze the victims and hang them from the ceiling...
so when you go into their place where they eat you see the room with bodies hanging from the ceiling.....
the victims are paralyzed with a special spell... they remain conscious but unable to move and basically in a prolonged hibernation except they are aware of what goes on...

syko: ... snip... Also, while tombs are a bit overused, they are almost infinite in their customization possibilities and I'm sure whoever takes on the job of creating it can come up with something visionary and unique. A tomb would also offer the most room for an 'evil side' to become apparent, as well as the possibility of dictating to the player their focus on alchemy and other hunter skillsets through the gathering of herbs and other organic compounds which would be near at hand in a tomb.

As far as an evil side goes, if they have adopted alchemy as their main specialization, perhaps have some of the more influential and ancient vampires have their own private quarters where they conduct 'expirements'; i.e: necromancy and torture in the hopes of discovering any alternatives to their 'curse' or other unknown benefits of vampirism.

Now we come to some powerful resolutions:

rm: suspect you can have all.

The younger members could live in a variety of tombs, ruins, etc and many might be close to feral, while the Ancients might be gathered in one serious location buried deep.

Razorwing: Now that's a great idea Harikari!

Maybe the ancients have awarded themselves the luxury of not having to hunt anymore, making it the younger vampire's responsibility to provide sustenance (victims) for them?

And the idea of the player rummaging through a narrow tomb that suddenly opens up into an enormous cave would make for a great and memorable experience, I think. And then he'd notice creepy shadows along the wall quickly making their way towards him...

KuKulzA
alright... maybe the tomb is an extensive one... and one catacomb is a feeding place where victims are paralyzed and hung from the ceiling... one is an armory... with old Redoran heraldry and armors and also those taken from ambushed prey... anther room could be simply a resting hall....
but the first level is a giant maze of catacombs... supposed to mislead adventurers into thinking it IS simply a large maze-like catacomb... BUT
should you find one of two doors to the 2nd level, you will find the lair of the newer, yoiunger vampires as well as their armory and feeding hall.... with a few traps
going to the 3rd level down will bring you to a better armory and a larger feeding hall..... also with traps which leads o the ancients' lair...
which is a long hallway ending with a strong iron/wood door... opening it will lead you to open into an enormous cavern... and within, there are broken columns and small crevices and such... the ancients live here...

rm: But I expect that there is a 'light, civilised feel' to Ayelid ruins in Oblivion, whereas Tombs are usually darker. And we have differing sides to our Cerros, with Harakiri's and my idealistic Redoran freedom fighters and the 'darker side' of the old campaigners, so why not retain a duality of nature and have that reflected in their main base with an Ayelid ruin on the surface that connects to something darker...

If handled well this could provide a powerful frisson to the unwary explorer.

...and it could be that even in the darkest of their darknesses there remains something of Redoran nobility that might almost be redeeming. I do get a bit tired of evil being nothing but evil and good being nothing but good - which is what attracted me to ES in the first place.

I would also remind everyone about my early idea of the Imperial Vampire coming to Morrowind's ST to corrupt the populace aeons ago, and being defeated by the Redorans' valor - but not w/out cost, for the pathos of the Tale is that the defenders themselves succumbed - there I think is a Tale for a true bard to bring to life...with delicacy: 'Love, Lies, Bleeding'.

Redoran at Heart
A second tale might be of an internal struggle between the heroes and the victims of the Imperial who seek their downfall that they might fulfill their master's ambition to corrupt the Heart of Redoran.

A Last Surviving Hero
But although the ancients were contained, only one of our heroes survived. Natch our Last Surviving Hero would have to have an edge - his alchemy...snip... and secret stuff. Maybe he was changed in some way? And he might have rescued youngsters down the centuries who'se spirits he is trying to save = eventually they are the hunters who provide the ingredients that keep the other ancients pacified or contained or whatever.

So if the player were to aid them when they believed they had failed...that would be the positive that might lead to their accepting the player...

siegfried: I think sewer is the best choice for the Vampire clan to be based in, would be kind of creepy to find out that the vampires aren't in some far off ruin, but living and operating right underneath your feet

shunoshi: I like Raggidman's thinking on having multiple holds. A main headquarters could easily reside in the mountains and they could use the sewers as staging points from which to easily attack a town and retreat as quickly as they appeared. Sewers are an excellent escape route as well since most sewers would have an exit emptying into a dump (whether it be a sewage pit or body of water, or a bit of both, not nice to think about ).

Smaller groups of active younger hunters would stay in the sewer hideouts and report back to the higher ranked ancient vampires who stay in their safe keep high in the mountains. The younger hunters would more than likely be responsible for providing food possibly for the ancients by kidnapping villagers and bringing them to the keep so that the ancients can kill them and feed at their leisure.

rm: This is a bump as the first Vampire claim has come up.

The proposed claim is for younger vampires in a sewer location, and I am assuming that this will be the 'hunter-gatherer' type, out assassinating Imperials and gathering food and Alchemical Ingredients for themselves and the Ancients.

In response to Psycho Dude's post this is Morrowind where Vampires are hated to a degree that does not exist in Cyrodiil, or on Earth???

They have to be well camoflaged or all the other dudes with magic will hunt them down and exterminate them, and Morrowind Vampires tend to get more powerful and are sooner more obvious than Cyrodiil Vampires.

There is another thread where we discussed the nature of a possible Cerro joinable faction.

An alternate history was discussed there in which it was speculated that the clan might have begun with a renegade Imperial Vampire with Alchemical skills who decided to start a new clan (or new idea what if the Redorans who were vampirised went all out trying to find a cure for their condition and developed the Alchemy skil through that?) and started a huge (secret) vampire war in which HE is the enemy - who was defeated? (Or is HE?) But the Redoran Vampires decided to live on to rid their land of the invading Imperials - whatever. So many nice possibilities if you are thirsty...

rm: If the Cerro are dedicated to safeguarding Dunmer ideals and interests (despite the tradjedy of their undunmer affliction) then maybe they would not recruit in the normal way?

There could be a manor (not the main headquarters) that is used as a trading post and recruitment testing/induction centre - some such like that by the younger vampires. Such a location might gain a slightly off rep, because not all the potential recruits would be suitable, but those who are accepted might be sent away through the local area during the incubation period so that when they 'turn' elsewhere, no one will connect their disappearance with the manor?

Also this journey would be a further test of loyalty and commitment... with the newly infected pre-vamp being sent to a random location believing it to be the location of the HQ, and a watch kept on the actions of the recruit to see if he/she goes through with it. And in the event of betrayal - disposal of the evidence...

If a betrayal succeeded then the manor could be abandoned - after all it is just a temporary residence...

As to the choice regarding a Cerro connection that makes sense. Having odd groups of random vampires (they might be hunted down by the Cerro if they prey on Dunmer) around would be useful camoflage for the Cerro's patriotic activities - esp if they are Imperials!

[bob196045]

Good Start and thanks

so from this start we piece together the following "possiblities"

1) The Clan has Political agenda's (what are they?)

2) The Velothi Mountains Region could be their home
(but they wouldn't live in caves, I remember reading that the Dwemer had build massive underground cities within the Velothi Mountains, does that seem like a possibility for a home?)

3) They specialize in Alchemy, Illusion & Stealth (how special? could we introduce some new potion mixtures, and skills)

4) They are reclusive (self explanitory)

5) Their membership is exclusively Redoran
(what about the PC, how will they react to a non-red/dunmer character, possibly in introductory quest, if we remember the Ashlanders considered the PC an Outlander until he/she proved worth by performing the Trials and then was considered Clan Friend)

6) Their could be a connection with the Cammona Tong
In what respect, interaction with the Tong or just common goals ?

7) They consider other Vampire Clans as enemies
(again self explanitory)
(also it is beleive that the Vampire races were introduced by Molag Bal, how will this be accepted, what effect will it have on the clan and/or its interaction with other vampire clans?)


Any other points to note?


Bob

[raggidman]

There is a bit more, just could not get back online 'til now, but I believe that we came to some very definite conclusions that add definition, so I will just add them to the end of my previous post, and then summarise my feelings as to what works the most in this one.. heh, you thought I was going to rhyme by saying this post ... oops, just did... which you might factor into your post above?

what I think is generally agreed in outline:
The Cerro have
- a deeply hidden ' Ancient Core' of Alchemists who do not interact directly with the outside world... they have their own purposes and laboratories...

- the younger Cerro are a bit of a mix - they hunt and gather - both 'cattle' and 'ingredients.' And they also need to have some means of information gathering on behalf of the 'Ancients' to preserve their secret and to achieve their aims...

- so the young have two groups = one a bit wild = the hunters of supplies, and the second being very sophisticated information-gatherers and recruiters...

Political agendas: it seems that they are not really concerned with inter-House politics as such, but it may be that their foundation is in resistance to invaders. Maybe they are so ancient that they predate the Redoran, and maybe they are newer. They would prey on imperials and Nords by preference for food, and recruit from the Redoran by preference as that is their general link - though their skillset is different...

...will fill in here in a moment...

rm: But I expect that there is a 'light, civilised feel' to Ayelid ruins in Oblivion, whereas Tombs are usually darker. And we have differing sides to our Cerros, with Harakiri's and my idealistic Redoran freedom fighters and the 'darker side' of the old campaigners, so why not retain a duality of nature and have that reflected in their main base with an Ayelid ruin on the surface that connects to something darker...

If handled well this could provide a powerful frisson to the unwary explorer.

...and it could be that even in the darkest of their darknesses there remains something of Redoran nobility that might almost be redeeming. I do get a bit tired of evil being nothing but evil and good being nothing but good - which is what attracted me to ES in the first place.

I would also remind everyone about my early idea of the Imperial Vampire coming to Morrowind's ST to corrupt the populace aeons ago, and being defeated by the Redorans' valor - but not w/out cost, for the pathos of the Tale is that the defenders themselves succumbed - there I think is a Tale for a true bard to bring to life...with delicacy: 'Love, Lies, Bleeding'.

Redoran at Heart
A second tale might be of an internal struggle between the heroes and the victims of the Imperial who seek their downfall that they might fulfill their master's ambition to corrupt the Heart of Redoran.

A Last Surviving Hero
But although the ancients were contained, only one of our heroes survived. Natch our Last Surviving Hero would have to have an edge - his alchemy...snip... and secret stuff. Maybe he was changed in some way? And he might have rescued youngsters down the centuries who'se spirits he is trying to save = eventually they are the hunters who provide the ingredients that keep the other ancients pacified or contained or whatever.

So if the player were to aid them when they believed they had failed...that would be the positive that might lead to their accepting the player...

2)The Velothi Mts is definitely home, but we have to think in terms of the Ancient Home, and smaller bases... As the TES4 Core has generally ruled out Dwemer on the mainland, we have to make other choices...

For the Headquarters I favour combining a ruin with a bad rep below which there are deeep delvings - the reason is that the rep of the ruin would explain any disappearences. Also this is the location of the Ancient Vampires, and frankly manors fall to pieces and disappear in time so the loc has to be something more... perhaps even something that predates the Ayeleid? Deep lore conected, but not clearly specified...?

3) Alchemy for the Ancients, and maybe Lore?
Illusion, Stealth and surprisingly Communication and Trading = for the smarter and more civilised 'controllers'
Stealth, illusion, alchemical lore, paralysis, archery, whatever is needed for the hunter gatherers...
We will have to consider interesting stuff for the new potions/skills


4) They are reclusive (self explanitory)

5) Their membership is exclusively Redoran
(what about the PC, how will they react to a non-red/dunmer character, possibly in introductory quest, if we remember the Ashlanders considered the PC an Outlander until he/she proved worth by performing the Trials and then was considered Clan Friend) - see Last Surviving Hero above - natch the Last Hero is a Vampire too (as our hero may discover... eventually)

6) Their could be a connection with the Cammona Tong? Aaaargh, hate them nitwits - would not trust them - might manipulate them as enemies. The Tong are just thugs to be exploited, they connected with Dagoth Ur...


7) They consider other Vampire Clans as enemies
(again self explanitory)
(also it is believed that the Vampire races were introduced by Molag Bal, how will this be accepted, what effect will it have on the clan and/or its interaction with other vampire clans?)

One idea in the faction thread (buried somewheres deep) questioned whether an Imperial Vampire might have crossed the Mts to prey on the Ancient Velothi, and the victims fought back - that Ancient Imperial might still exist, trapped or imprisoned deep down... or might now be dead - and so these Cerro are questing to resist vampirism by using the tools of their prey that were forced on them - and back to start = seeking an Alchemical solution to cure the affliction... maybe even a potion like the innoculation that young Mr Fyr offered the Nerevarine, but with a different slant to keep certain strengths of the Vamp, and cure the less pleasant aspects? A cleansing potion...

Keeping the dual aspects of a yearning for a Light Benevolence sheathed in deep appreciation of evil...

[bob196045]

Its been way more than a min j/k


Yes the added info provides some definition

I like the Idea of having outposts for the younger members to do their "Dirty Work"

The use of some type of ruin would be good to draw unsuspecting adventures in

The posibility of "recruitment" is also a nice touch

Also having the Hiarchy in a secluded hidden place, a place were only the Oldest and Wisest of Cerro are allowed, where the ancient secrets are kept... I like this as well )
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The Archetecture for such a place would need to be discussed, if this is something we want to expand from III to IV then it needs to be something that would fit into both Mods, if we go with something unique, we will need to model it for both, If we go with something existng then we just need to decide what
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[raggidman]

Yes, that is my hope - that the outline will work for both 3 and 4 - and the location may be connected to something far more ancient than the Cerro themselves - would explain why they persist = they have a hope based upon a deep discovery...

Hope you appreciate my conclusions about having a manor as the major base... that is fine for the intermediaries, but not for their deepest home...

And I love the idea that our hero might visit the ruins above the deep home and never realise what lies below unless recruited...

Maybe part of the reason he travels to Akavir is to help the Cerro find a cure?

That leaves the way open for our hero in 4 to gain poison immunity = makes it possible for a non-Argonian to quest in Black Marsh mod... ?

But if their is triumph, there must also be loss to balance it.

edit ps did not resolve all the questions re origins, but feel the general lines in the quoted section might work as books - and so I would offer them as Book Claims in Lit Dev, and see who responds?

[bob196045]

Yes I do agree about the manor thing, it should be more elaborate for the Ancient Cerro

Ok so a MAN (not MER) Vampire comes to morrowind and feasts on Chimer. Creating in effect the Cerro who over time and through reclusivness become exclusivly of Redoran, possibly due to a combination of location and desired traits.

Now that their Blood is tainted with that of MEN they have reason for their hatred. And a desire to rid themselves of this tainted blood.
YET
Unlike the other vampire clans they have some uniqueness,
an ability to think rationally, But this is slowly deteriorating
(hence their reason for needing a cure) (for the vampirism ? ) )or to find a "means" to keep their vampiric state and still remain civilized ?)

Over the many years they become masters of Alchemy, Illusion and Stealth

Our Hero steps in to aid (either by chance or by desire) (WHY?)< just thinking outloud

Akavir would be the place to go to find a means, but not a cure (or would it?)


in a nutshell ?

or do we need to go deeper ?


Bob

[raggidman]

Why would our Hero step in? - or why did the Nerevarine disappear?

Thing is that if the Ancientest Cerro made such a request and left it open (like: in Akavir we have heard of 'something' and we have sent our agents, but they never return) then we have a powerful reasoning/situation to satisfy the 'unknown' part of the Nerevarine's arrival in Akavir. This would be a quest that our hero cannot complete in TES3, but that would be at the end of the trail = that would be the Cerro end-game for TES3 - an offer which leaves the field open... and tantalises with possibilities... for TES4... left at chasing a rumour + need for secrecy... with some kind of unachievable quest to be completed as a first step before our hero can depart... that would fit in with some of the plans that Vv has discussed with Akavir - would you like to attract their attention now - say chat with your fellow mod leaders? But advise be firm about maintaining the Cerro basics that we seem to have settled as they 'offend no one' to date.' Natch someone will say something - but that is modding. :lol:

A cure for vampirism that 'works whether the vampire wants it or not' could be a dunmer big plus - and natch the Nerevarine has to decide if he/she is that kind of dunmer...

Along the way he must satisfy the Cerro that he is both capable and to be trusted - so to entice and intrigue him would be their game = a series of trials and test quests, possibly including killing enemy vampires, and other stuff, and if he is a member of another clan already, then oh boy is he in a moral bind and has a lot of killing to do!

Now - yer "tainted with MEN" - that works as an extreme wild Cerro youth point of view for me... for the 'thinking' Cerro it must be the ongoing threat of further contamination = more vampires crossing the mountains from Cyrodiil that they oppose... esp if the original was from there.

Deterioration then can be a likely explanation for the feral nature of so many of the younger ones - the older and ancienter ones being the most resistant natch = they are naturally thinking beings, and may rely heavily on Int potions and Drain Int spells - that gives a second school of magic = mysticism... their main focus being to maintain their guard against the threat...

Funny thing, but I suspect that by the time the Nerevarine gets to the Cerro I suspect that seriously powerful and otherwise unobtainable int ingredients will be very attractive ... = likely compliance to get more... or have to spend hours to build up int by crewatng bigger and bigger int pots from tiny ingredients... wicked, eh?

absolutely with the build up of Redoranness due to the initial location of the first vampire...

Not sure if my stuff here is deeper, just adding a bit of detail and clarifying some thoughts on your ideas in my mind... K?

[bob196045]

Not sure if my stuff here is deeper, just adding a bit of detail and clarifying some thoughts on your ideas in my mind... K?

Very much K. this is the kind of discussion needed to make this believable and fitting

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the Ancientest Cerro made such a request and left it open (like: in Akavir we have heard of 'something' and we have sent our agents, but they never return) then we have a powerful reasoning/situation to satisfy the 'unknown' part of the Nerevarine's arrival in Akavir

Along the way he must satisfy the Cerro that he is both capable and to be trusted - so to entice and intrigue him would be their game = a series of trials and test quests, possibly including killing enemy vampires, and other stuff

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Good Entry to TES IV nothing firm, but gives "another reason" why the Nerevarine is in Akavir. And wouldn't hex things up when and if Beth decides to say why he/she is their !


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A cure for vampirism that 'works whether the vampire wants it or not' could be a dunmer big plus
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True. Someone in Akavir has got to have one, or maybe its just that they are closer to discovering one. But who? Seems to me the Ka Po' Tun would be the most likely source and have the most reason for wanting a cure ( but thats beyond what we need to know for TES III) < thinking loudly again....I know you can't hear me or can you ...ooooooohhhh )


The rest is icing......

***** A potion that allows the Vampires to Keep all thier Vampiric Bonuses but removes all the Negatives.... thats what we are looking for (Similar to the Fyr Potion) !!!

Need to look at these Vampire traits and decide what the Cerro will have for Bonuses

Other Vampires have

+20 to Strength, Willpower, and Speed
+30 to Sneak, Athletics, Acrobatics, Hand-to-Hand, Unarmored, Mysticism, Illusion, and Destruction
Immune to Paralysis and Common Disease
+50% Resistance to Normal Weapons
Vampire Touch spell, absorb health
Damage to sunlight
Levitate spell, long lasting, low cost

Additionally: Individual Clans
Berne Clan: +20 to Agility, additional +20 to Sneak, Unarmored, and Hand-to-Hand.
Aundae Clan: +20 to Short Blade, additional +20 to Willpower, Mysticism, and Destruction
Quarra Clan: +20 Blunt Weapon, additional +20 to Strength, Hand-to-Hand, and Heavy Armour

**** Cerro Clan (bob's input)

+20 to Int,

+15 to Sneak (additional)
+20 to Alchemy
+20 to Illusion (additional)

???????????????????

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[raggidman]

Maybe the biggest problem that Vampires have, apart form being unable to keep from hunting is recognition - so a potion that makes the need to hunt controllable - or makes animal blood a possible substitute + disguises the visible side effects of vampirism

(+ poison defence as an option for the Black Marshes thing?)