Gideon

[PhiniusMaster]

(let me just introduce myself)
I'm new here but somehow already had am account here at Silgrad. I'm basically interested in lending a bit of a hand, though all I can really do is CS work and touching up textures that have already been made as I am hopeless at making brand new ones by unwrapping UV stuff and all that silliness. Cheers!


I noticed/read in the thread on the Bethesda Modding forums that Gideon was in serious need of a revamp, and have started talking a bit with Ibsen about taking on all or some of that job for the beginning of the revamp. Though he has made me aware that you guys have a particular desired 'feel' for it, an that there is a very important quest-line based out of there that I would need to keep in mind. Anyway, just wanted to bring it up.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Hi Phinius Master!

Thanks for dropping by. This is probably the best place to start for information on Gideon: Gideon . It begins with Senten's post about retexturing the buildings. I think, in a way, that it would indeed be a good idea to go with the idea of retexturing these models. Cheydinhal was always my favourite city though so the texture work has to be absolutely A1 or else it won't do justice to the beautiful models. Anyway, after Senten's post Deeza and I outline some of the more important ideas.

To sum up these ideas: First up, we need a home for the Shadowscales and I still haven't got this sorted yet but I want to come up with something fitting and original. InsanitySorrow is in charge of the Shadowscale questline so I'll need his feedback on this. Secondly, there is something lurking in the sewers which might also be occupied by members of the Sotho Tren criminal syndicate. Thirdly, the presence of shamanic voodoo will be in most places throughout the Black Marsh but I had planned on Gideon being the site of its meeting with the other necromantic arts. Personally, I'm not fond of vampires but if they were ever going to make an appearance in our mod then here is the place for them to be. Basically, the whole place is just far too attractive and nice at the moment. =) I was wondering whether a pall of smoke may overhang the town to reflect its dark nature. Koniption has created a cloud effect that may do the trick.

In terms of modding, my main concern is that the layout of Gideon is a little flat and blocky. It also has very large gaps around the margins of the town between the walls and where the buildings are set up. This was the original plan as designed by Tlo1048, the ex-leader of the project: http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x99/T...imsmap.jpg . You can't see the walls here for some reason but the settlement is very centralised. If you check out my (very) rough sketch that I've attached to this post (the first one), you'll see my basic ideas on how to improve it.

The main differences, besides filling in the margins, is to have a bit more height-mapping at the bottom-right so as to create a hillock (raised land) with a possible Guild building or player home. Possibly add gardens and a market place. Definitely add a graveyard for our Church model (see second attachment) and then to use a combination of Helborne's medieval models (see other attachments) and SI Dementia houses in a very run-down, lower-class swamp area in the top-left corner. The rest is just a case of re-arranging the existing houses a bit. (Btw, Koniption is currently preparing Helborne's models for use).

The drawbacks are that these plans might interfere with the now-familiar, prison-like walkway of the towers and bridges and that the textures may look like a real mixture with not much uniformity in its character. I'm particularly fond of Helborne's, Cheydinhal's and the Dementia house textures so I'm not sure if they'll look out-of-place alongside each other.

[PhiniusMaster]

I presume those 3 buildings are Helborne's?

Anyway, so yeah, I see what you mean about those buildings maybe clashing with Cheydinhal stuff, but if its the shape and architecture of Cheydinhal's buildings, I might be able to retexture them and factor in some of the textures from Helborne's new buildings while still keeping the Cheydinhal feel, thus making them feel more at home with each-other in the same city.

A market is definitely something every city needs, I just wonder if we should have it be an all week market or one that's just on weekends or some Black Marsh market day (if something of that sort exists). I've made a market that is only present on certain days with Enable parents and AI Packages and all that, so it is very much doable.

Also, would you like the place cluttered a bit too, nothing worthy of an FPS hit or anything, or did you want to maintain the kind of feeling of fake contentedness in the city?

And lastly, would you like the building count to stay the same? Do you have any interiors already set up? Anything that shouldn't be moved? I assume the city is an 'open city' not in its own world space?

EDIT: I'm having a bit of a hard time reading some of the stuff in that rough layout, is it something that I should try and stick to as much as possible? If so could you maybe bring it into paint and just type over the handwriting to make it a bit more legible? My hand writing is much worse than that so typing over it is usually what I do.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

=) That plan was really rough.

Yes, those three buildings are Helborne's. The first is the Church, the second is what Helborne had decided was a Guild building but that I'm referring to as the 'mausoleum' and the third is just an arched building. Koniption's a little busy right now at work but I'm hoping she can get these sorted soon so work can begin on the revamp...and mxing / playing with the textures definitely sounds good. Helborne's textures are uniformly excellent but they come with a number filesize so we should try to use the brick texture a little more, perhaps. However, I still love that Cheydinhal texture....perhaps it would be worthwhile just darkening it....? Anyhow, I'd like to see you have a go and see what you come up with. =)

A weekend market would be cool. We have some market awnings already and I was considering using this resource: http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=23361 which is also quite light on the filesize as it uses vanilla textures....I don't know what the polycount is like, though.

Clutter would be great! :yes:

I've attached an altered sketch-map of the city....no problem with the number of houses really. I just don't want to be unnecessarily adding any extra interiors. The jpeg offers a few guidelines anyhow. I've also attached the map of the five houses that presently have interiors. These can be moved but you'll need to link up the doors to the interiors if you do so.

The only really big change is that I decided the presence of the lower-class area so close to the Castle was a no-no. Therefore, if you look at each of the four corners then you can imagine how you might be able to reverse the plan so that the graveyard is up the Northern end and the stream/lower-class area is at the Southern end.....I told you it was a rough sketch...!

I'm presently doing a little bit of a revamp of Stormhold myself so I should be able to work with you a little bit, offer suggestions and guide you to resources....but you seem to know what you're doing and I need the help so I shall leave this claim in your hands, if you wish.

Btw, don't forget to visit this thread: New Modders Start Here . Don't be fooled! The first post by Tlo1048 has been altered by myself and should contain everything you need to know to get started.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Btw, you can probably just use the Helborne models that exist in the Gideon Architecture folder as placeholders for the time being but they will need to be replaced with the versions that Koniption will eventually get sorted. She has a problem with the program at the moment, though.

I think the building03 model may be missing from the archive (the one with the arches). This is because it's just plain weird! The axis means that when you drag it into the worldspace, it appears miles away from you and you need to drag it carefully into position. Meanwhile, the church building also presently has its interior laid alongside it. Just ignore the interior. Alternatively, ignore this whole area for now and wait for the meshes. The texturing will take a bit of work anyway.

[PhiniusMaster]

I should be getting to work shortly, but I just have one last little question. I'm not really used to working on/with mods that have an esm and an esp, which should I look in for modding Gideon? I'm guessing the esp, but I just wanna double check. Also, sorry for my delayed response, this is my last week of final exams.

[Ibsen's Ghost]

Hey, no problem! It's the same for so many of us. From what I've been hearing it could get really hectic soon because there's so many in the same situation. =)

Anyway, when modding, download the latest esm. You can find it here: Latest esm and esp updates and it's the first link you come to. The Golden Rule is: DO NOT mod with any other files active! The Oblivion esm will automatically tick itself off but you should never open any other esp than the one you're working on. The esm is the master file that contains everything done so far whilst the esp is your own work and modifications to the existing master file.

Save your work as usual as an esp beginning 'BMPH....'. This is because we all have naming codes to identify work done e.g. 'BMPHGideon'. I just added your code in this post: Naming Codes . Let me know if you want to change it.

You will, of course, have to download the archive which is big, and about to be updated. The latest one is here: Black Marsh Resources: Latest bsa but I'll be posting up a new one soon. You can use either since all of the models you need to use are already there. However, let me know if you plan to add any models, retextures or anything. You can let me do that or you may wish to do it yourself. If so, please stick to the correct folders and sections of the CS and name the objects with this sort of code '1BMPHGideonHouse01' but remember, of course, to send the models and textures.

Btw, were you planning on using those vendor's tables?

As I may have mentioned, Gideon is in its own child worldspace so look for it in the cell window. If you have any questions on what we have available and where it then you can contact me on MSN or Skype. I'm hoping to create a new thread soon as well that identifies all sections of the CS where we have new assets so stay tuned!

Good luck with the exams and I look forward to seeing what you do with this. Have fun! :goodjob:

[PhiniusMaster]

Alright, yeah I got the worldspace thing figured out right off the bat and started fixing some of the harsh ground textures and actual terrain elevation. After laying out the city, I am pretty good at FPS-safe cluttering and terrain coloring and doing pathnodes and stuff, so if you want I can take care of that stuff too. You think it would be cool to have those big suspended rope bridges be walkable so that whoever adds NPCs could let the guard do some patrols up there?

I don't think I'll be using those tables just because they look really polygon heavy and the same effect can be achieved with some lower class static furniture and misc items, which usually look more realistic than those, which seem freakishly well organized, especially for a weekend market in a BM town.

I'll download that new BSA as soon as I have some time, I had just downloaded the old one before reading your post.

And lastly, could let me know as soon as all the new architecture is done so I can start work on placing some actual buildings instead of the skingrad stuff I've got in its place atm?

[Ibsen's Ghost]

I'd definitely go for the option of walking around those walkways. I'll need to check the LOD to make sure that you can see trees beyond the Gideon Child WS though. Otherwise, it would look odd. Check if there are any places you might be able to jump outside of the walls though....they may need collision boxes. I'm doing the same thing with Stormhold where it's possible to patrol the turret at the front.

Good points about the tables! :check: I tend to use Black Marsh flora ingredients as much as possible for stuff like this. The Hala fruit is huge and needs resizing but there are other items that are attractive enough to be displayed.

RE: architecture. Koniption is still waiting for help with optimising the medieval buildings. Otherwise, I think they're all done. I think I'd probably give the Skingrad stuff a miss. I like those buildings but getting rid of them will make the arrival of the medieval stuff less of a jumble, particularly if the Cheydinhal buildings need to be re-textured. Talking of which, do you have an idea for the textures of those buildings or would you like me to try re-texturing them for you?

[PhiniusMaster]

If you want to do the re-textures yourself be my guest but I should be able to cook something up.