[Quest] Joining the Morag Tong

[bob196045]

Originally posted by Hegemege
I got a little idea.

Player must kill all the bandits without alarming them except the leader who will force talk to player when he enters the chamber. If player alarms bandit and the bandit gets time to yell to the prison guard, a bandit who guards the kidnapped man tries to kill the prisoner.

My point is that if someone wants to join MT he must act like an assassin and move undetected to be able to join the guild. The prisoner got health of course, if the player accidentally alarms one of the guards and player gets time to kill the guard near the man and rescue him, and there should be bonus if player doesn't alarm bandits just because it's more assassin-like than speedrunning through the fort and killing anyone in your way.

just my 0.02

I would be in 100% concurrance to the stealthy assasin being actually stealthy hrug:

Enjoy
Bob

TENCHU

[Seniosh]

See, i would be for that if Oblivion was a stealth-based game, with the proper mechanics.

As it is, even a player sneak-attacking a bandit with an enchanted claymore won't necessarily kill the bandit in one hit, especially at lower levels. So it is very difficult from a practical sense to actually "assassinate" someone cleanly, and before they can raise an alarm.

And when you have multiple bandits in each room, which is also well-lit? Not possible to kill them all. A bow and arrow isn't going to cut it, and there's no way to melee without being detected.

However, this could still work quite nicely. You see, being an assassin isn't about killing everyone, it's about killing the target. Right now, i have it set up so that if you kill the leader first, you get a bonus, in the form of an enchanted object. That means that there is an incentive to be stealthy about it, and I have definitely laid out the cave in such a manner that it is very possible.

Also, i'm not sure how exactly a prison-guard mechanism would work. I mean, if you are spotted by a bandit in the first room, he obviously wouldn't be able to alert the guard, who is in a completely different section of the cave. Because of the relative isolation of each room, it just wouldn't make sense that they could alert anybody.

[nick_op]

Originally posted by Seniosh
However, this could still work quite nicely. You see, being an assassin isn't about killing everyone, it's about killing the target. Right now, I have it set up so that if you kill the leader first, you get a bonus, in the form of an enchanted object. That means that there is an incentive to be stealthy about it, and I have definitely laid out the cave in such a manner that it is very possible.

I agree with this, the Morag Tong were about the honorable killing of a specific person/people, which they were legally allowed to do, any other kills just complicated matters.

Also, while not quite in the same vein, I hope not all missions will be stealth based, it would be interesting to have some missions that don't really start until after the death of the target (e.g. survival), or perhaps some that include speechcraft to get close to a paranoid target.

Also, i'm not sure how exactly a prison-guard mechanism would work. I mean, if you are spotted by a bandit in the first room, he obviously wouldn't be able to alert the guard, who is in a completely different section of the cave. Because of the relative isolation of each room, it just wouldn't make sense that they could alert anybody.

In most stealth games I've played, there is usually some form of alarm, especially in the first area/room. You could have a gong that the first guard would try to activate if he detected you.

[Seniosh]

Survival? now that is an interesting idea for a Writ! In fact, i just wrote that one down on my notecard of writ ideas.

Going back to the gong though, i can see how that would work, except that when i say there is distance, i'm talking about two cells, and a large winding cave. I'm a bit of a realism nerd sometimes, and there is no way any normal alarm is going to go through four distant rooms of a cave, through a door, and countless winding passages to reach a guard.

Maybe though, I could make a magic alarm-system? Not sure what that would look like exactly, but if someone can make a good case for how it would work, i'll definitely consider it.

Then again, going from a game-play perspective, if the guards are instantly alerted while you are in the first room, that prisoner is going to die. There's no way anybody'd be able to get through the entire thing that quickly, kill the boss (who has the key), and save the prisoner. I think a system where the prisoner dies is out.

I have a good compromise though. If the first guard sees you and get low on health, he pulls a lever. Then, the rest of the bandits undergo an AI switch, and take up cautious patrols, making it impossible to sneak past. They'll take positions in choke points, hidden passageways, ect. Maybe i'll even have some extra guards spawn on an alarm-pull, just to make it an extra-penalty, including a few more guards in the prison-room.

Therefore, it's a bit more work for me, but a better quest for the player. The stealth mechanic is more emphasized, but not quite as harsh as having the prisoner die. I'll make a magic alarm lever which the guard will run to pull when he reaches 50% health, and all will be well in the world.

Sound good?

[Hegemege]

Originally posted by Seniosh
I have a good compromise though. If the first guard sees you and get low on health, he pulls a lever. Then, the rest of the bandits undergo an AI switch, and take up cautious patrols, making it impossible to sneak past. They'll take positions in choke points, hidden passageways, ect. Maybe i'll even have some extra guards spawn on an alarm-pull, just to make it an extra-penalty, including a few more guards in the prison-room.

Therefore, it's a bit more work for me, but a better quest for the player. The stealth mechanic is more emphasized, but not quite as harsh as having the prisoner die. I'll make a magic alarm lever which the guard will run to pull when he reaches 50% health, and all will be well in the world.

Sound good?

First when I said the prisoner is gonna die soon.thing, I thought that the prisoncell would be in the same cell as the starter one and leader probably in his own chambers under the fort. But your idea sounds perfect.

I like the 50 % health and then pulling lever-idea. And I like also the patrol thing, if someone pulls the lever, guards start patroling.

Yeah, sounds Very Good :thumbsup:

[nick_op]

Sounds good to me.

Also, you forget the magick alarm system that comes with the game - the Imperial Legion. Kill someone in their basement with no one else around and a guard on the other side of the city sprints like Linford Cristie and arrests you before your victims body hits the ground. Sounds like magick to me.

[Hegemege]

Originally posted by nick_op
Sounds good to me.

Also, you forget the magick alarm system that comes with the game - the Imperial Legion. Kill someone in their basement with no one else around and a guard on the other side of the city sprints like Linford Cristie and arrests you before your victims body hits the ground. Sounds like magick to me.

Haha, I almost fell off my chair. :lmao:

Yeah I remember that also, if you stole item from that same basement, the guards still ran for you

[Seniosh]

Nah, that's just good detective work!

Those sly Imperial guards have been following you - yer a fugitive after all.

Alright then, i'll get to work putting all this in :check:

Thanks for the feedback you guys! this is why i make these threads

[Senten]

Sounds amazing!Can't wait to play it!

[Seniosh]

ok, does anybody have any good idea of how to make an NPC pull a lever? I've been trying to use scripts, which look like this:

begin onstartcombat player
if StSeMTQuest01Join.Alerted == 0
addscriptpackage StSeMTQuest01BanditAlert02
endif
end

Basically, it's supposed to add an Ambush package (target == lever) to a bandit when he starts combat. Unfortunately, it's not working like that, and he'll activate the lever even when not in combat.

Anybody got a better way to do it? I'm not really an AI genius, and the whole Alarm thing is proving extremely difficult to pull off nicely (though the extra spawns are working well when the lever is pulled)