Temple and 6th House issues

[Axen]

The "bad" things Vivec would be doing have no benefit to himself... and all things that he does are self-benefits.
And the Camonna Tong... they wouldn't abandon the hold they have on House Hlaalu, that'd be a disservice to itself. In TES3, they had a hangout in Sadrith Mora, too.

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by Axen
The "bad" things he would be doing have no benefit to himself.

but I don't think he cares... in my opnion I think he is saying "screw you Morrowind, in a thousand years, you will realize I have the last laugh" or something like that... his personal gain...
well his personal gain is that people think he is a hero... and in immediate situation he is...
however this gives him a sort of "excuse" to be able to leave Morrowind even though it is his duty tp be guardian of Morrowind so-they-say he says he has other business to finish... in truth he is going to pursue his own vendettas and cause mischief amongst those he hates... but the people of Morrowind think he is leaving to protect them against mysterious enemies only he knows of...

truth be told, I think this gives him a LOT of benefit...
he is remembered as one of the greatest Tribunal Saints now, he has the majority of the Dunmer population loving him again, and he is now free to do "whatever" in the eyes of the Dunmer people



do you know what I mean?



EDIT:
I didn't mean that.... I meant that they'd become their own minor House BUT they'd still be in the Hlaalu grouping. Only the new House would be more independent and exercise political control...
this way Orvas and do things legally and illegally....
it simply opens his options and allows further control of Hlaalu...

so sorry fo rthe confusion, I typed it down a bit wrong

[Axen]

"He doesn't care"... exactly. And he also doesn't care what the people think or will think of him if it doesn't make him gain anything for himself that really matters. He's been manipulating the people ever since the birth of the Tribunal Temple, likely to eventually set himself in a really easy position to achieve CHIM.

And I don't see why Orvas would have need of doing (some) things "legal"... he's doing perfectly fine the pure illegal way, thanks to corruption and him being the Duke's brother.

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by Axen
"He doesn't care"... exactly. And he also doesn't care what the people think or will think of him if it doesn't make him gain anything for himself that really matters. He's been manipulating the people ever since the birth of the Tribunal Temple, likely to eventually set himself in a really easy position to achieve CHIM.

I think Vivec wants to be loved, but I don't think he cares what the outcome will be of him manipulating people and events to make peoples love him....
I mean look, he was a hero for stopping Baar Dan from hitting Vivec City and Morrowind... but he put a spell that if the people stopped loving Vivec, it would resume its speedy descend and crush Vivec City and the force of its impact would cause a huge catastrophe throught Morrowind (think big crater, tsunami, dust-cloud, volcanic activity, earthquakes, etc.)

and look into his mind and past, he was an orphan and wanted to be loved...
he wanted to prove himself to a mostly unsympathetic crowd... he wanted to be accepted to be loved, to have Almalexia (they did become lovers at one point) and then to be loves as a hero and a god.

so I think he cares about being loved, but he doesn't care as much about what happens to Morrowind...

he is not an evil person, but he is not good either... and his whimsical selfishness and need to be loved and glorified has led him thus far....

---

[/hr]
I think you should talk about Cammona inthe Cammona Tong ideas thread...
but why don't you ask the Cosa Nostra or Mafia... the Sicilian ones, they were a criminal syndicate but they also were exercising some political influence in Sicily and tried to break from Spanish rule....
different situation but similar outcome I think...

[Axen]

Originally posted by KuKulzA

Originally posted by Axen
"He doesn't care"... exactly. And he also doesn't care what the people think or will think of him if it doesn't make him gain anything for himself that really matters. He's been manipulating the people ever since the birth of the Tribunal Temple, likely to eventually set himself in a really easy position to achieve CHIM.

I think Vivec wants to be loved, but I don't think he cares what the outcome will be of him manipulating people and events to make peoples love him....
I mean look, he was a hero for stopping Baar Dan from hitting Vivec City and Morrowind... but he put a spell that if the people stopped loving Vivec, it would resume its speedy descend and crush Vivec City and the force of its impact would cause a huge catastrophe throught Morrowind (think big crater, tsunami, dust-cloud, volcanic activity, earthquakes, etc.)

and look into his mind and past, he was an orphan and wanted to be loved...
he wanted to prove himself to a mostly unsympathetic crowd... he wanted to be accepted to be loved, to have Almalexia (they did become lovers at one point) and then to be loves as a hero and a god.

so I think he cares about being loved, but he doesn't care as much about what happens to Morrowind...

he is not an evil person, but he is not good either... and his whimsical selfishness and need to be loved and glorified has led him thus far....

Vehk wanted to be loved. Vivec's goal is to manipulate that love to get himself power that he can actively use or experience.
When Vivec stole the godhood, he had no more feeling, only knowing, and therefore he does not care to be loved just for the sake of being loved.

[X23]

Who is Vehk?

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by X23
Who is Vehk?

Vivec

Originally posted by Axen
Vehk wants to be loved. Vivec's goal is to manipulate that love to get himself power that he can actively use or experience.

you like to assume everyone is one way don't you?
everyone has many sides to them whether it is seen or not whether they know it or not
and often these sides are all combined or mixed up...

what makes you think Vivec is always one way or another?

EDIT: damn I wished you'd just type it all down at once...
anyhow, I think he is a mortal now isn't he?
and I think mortal senses are returning to him
he who remembers being a god but is NO LONGER

EDIT2:
also we aren't here to debate Vivec...
I would also like to know if my idea is good or not
(besides you unhappy about the way I showed Vivec)

[Axen]

Originally posted by X23
Who is Vehk?

Short answer: Vivec before he was a god.
Slightly longer answer (this is a bunch of my speculation, actually...): After he ascended, Vehk didn't become just Vivec, he became Vehk and Vivec (or perhaps Vehk, Vehk, and Vivec). Vehk the mortal was weak and wished to be loved. Vehk the god has no more feeling, but he is full of regret. Vivec cares only for self gain.

[KuKulzA]

Originally posted by Axen

Originally posted by X23
Who is Vehk?

Short answer: Vivec before he was a god.
Slightly longer answer: After he ascended, Vehk didn't become just Vivec, he became Vehk and Vivec (or perhaps Vehk, Vehk, and Vivec). Vehk the mortal was weak and wished to be loved. Vehk the god has no more feeling, but he is full of regret. Vivec cares only for self gain.

how do you know this?
Vivec claims that Vehk and Vivec are different, same body but the identity is different, one is the mortal incarnation and another is what he is as a god... can you trust him?

[Axen]

Originally posted by KuKulzA

Originally posted by Axen

Originally posted by X23
Who is Vehk?

Short answer: Vivec before he was a god.
Slightly longer answer: After he ascended, Vehk didn't become just Vivec, he became Vehk and Vivec (or perhaps Vehk, Vehk, and Vivec). Vehk the mortal was weak and wished to be loved. Vehk the god has no more feeling, but he is full of regret. Vivec cares only for self gain.

how do you know this?
Vivec claims that Vehk and Vivec are different, same body but the identity is different, one is the mortal incarnation and another is what he is as a god... can you trust him?

I edited my previous post to make it clear it's just some of my speculation.
I think Vivec may be both Vehk and Vivec (or Vehk, Vehk, and Vivec) at the same time because, well, he was able to use the multiple identities thing so he wouldn't right out tell the whole truth with his Water Face. In the Trial, he says "Vehk the mortal did not kill Nerevar, and Vehk the god did not" at the beginning, and at the end he gets Alandro Sul to say "He was not born a god. His destiny did not lead him to this crime. He chose the path of his own will. He murdered the Hortator and stole the godhood.", and then he says "VIVEC WROTE THIS".

Hmm... this thread turned into Speculation Madness. :eek: