The Capital of House Redoran

[KuKulzA]

I try to make a map that might show the territorial disputes of Morrowind...



so I have a few points to offer...

[1] Apparently ALL of Redoran's greatest influential cities are in trouble in sme way. Ald-ruhn is ruined and is being rebuilt by a desperate, aggressive, and shaken Redoran populance. Kragenmoore is clearly divided between the clans of Dunmer still loyal to Redoran and the Hlaalu incluence over the entire area from Kragenmoore to Bodrums. Thus Redoran hol don the area is tenuous at best. Soluthis, Cormaris View, and Silgrad City are not majorly influential places, though Cormaris View has some good economical activities going on, Soluthis has a growing population - but Silgrad Tower is a sort of neutral zone owned by Redoran only through tradition and geography. Blacklight is on the doorstep of Nordic invasion but holds trade route between Skyrim and Redoran territory, can fight with or conscript Orcs of the mountains (Azhag anyone?), can help maintain safe access to Vvardenfell as it is a large enough port. But it probably is under Imperial watch or control.

[2] The Redoran are run by a class of Noble-Warriors. They are clan with land, wealth, and martial prowess. Their population isn't very high though they can field strong armies, and the general populance is skilled in war to some extent. However they are on the border of their enemies and have been crushed. With Hlaalu basically running their southern area and Imperials keeping a close watch on their northern holdings, and Vvardenfellian holds are in constant danger. With the capitals being occupied or weakened, and the council being disbanded after the Oblivion Crisis to heal the wounds, the Redoran are in bad shape, and their neighbors won't let them recover. Remember that every Great House is a collection of clans and minor houses. These Great Houses are semi amorphous since clans cane be absorbed and adapt to their new Great House. Much of the western Deshaan above Narsis was owned by Indoril and the clans there were all Redoran or Indoril types, like in Ra'athrim. But the Ra'athrim (part of the House Mora) joined Hlaalu. Thus what appears to be Hlaalu expansion is as much hlaalu diaspora as well as increased influence and swallowing up the small farming and herding clans of the Plains.


so we have three choices...
A. have Blacklight be the de-facto capital, but its port under Imperial control (thus the city and its siter Cormaris View must collaborate as a joint capital, one being in influence the other being in actual Redoran power.
B. have Kragenmoore be the capitol only cause the others are unsuitable, but this one quickly falling to Hlaalu influence and really run by Hlaalu, though Redoran in name - though not for long
C. Or Ald-ruhn, perhaps it was elected Redoran capitol but was crushed by Daedra...

hrug: many possibilities, I hope I have helped..

[TheImperialDragon]

Originally posted by Razorwing
In fact one of the reasons I personally looked forward to getting started on the TES4 mod so much was that it gave a chance to examine everything we've done and try to do it better in those few cases we've made mistakes. That the old team made the Tower of Silgrad in Imperial design and situated it on the town's outskirts were one of those things, as that contradicts the only snippet of lore there is about it on every count. But it's human to err, so I don't want to knock on any oldies, it's just good to avoid repeating mistakes when possible.

Originally posted by KuKulzA
A. have Blacklight be the de-facto capital, but its port under Imperial control (thus the city and its siter Cormaris View must collaborate as a joint capital, one being in influence the other being in actual Redoran power.

So, not necessarily, it will be Rodan's call if it is in Blacklight.

[KuKulzA]

:yes: yep I think thats what it comes down to...
Blacklight is the best candidate since Kragenmoore is near annexation by Hlaalu, Ald-ruhn is crushed and the other cities are not influential enough... so if Rodan wants Blacklight to be capitol, then it shall be... if not then we could say there ISN'T one since after the Oblivion Crisis the Redoran Council has been spread out trying to manage their holds and keeping the Redoran intact..

hrug:

[raggidman]

Then in TES3 make Kraggenmoore the Capital, and make the pklayer quest in TES4 to transfer the capital to a new location. That way there are no cheap shots and thre is a real challenge = save the Ruling Redorans or betray them?

[The Old Ye Bard]

Then in TES3 make Kraggenmoore the Capital, and make the pklayer quest in TES4 to transfer the capital to a new location. That way there are no cheap shots and thre is a real challenge = save the Ruling Redorans or betray them?

But we know that in TES III time Kragenmoore was a Hlaalu(ish) town (From official references, not ST fan lore), so Blacklight should be capital from the start of TES4 ST.

[bob196045]

Howdy

Just a bit of info, their are a few topics about this very subject in the ES Forum and so far (though their haven't been many responses) the overall contention is that the Capital is Kragenmoor.... This of course has not come from anyone who is a Dev. (at least they don't claim the title)

Enjoy
Bob

[raggidman]

Originally posted by The Old Ye Bard

Then in TES3 make Kraggenmoore the Capital, and make the pklayer quest in TES4 to transfer the capital to a new location. That way there are no cheap shots and thre is a real challenge = save the Ruling Redorans or betray them?

But we know that in TES III time Kragenmoore was a Hlaalu(ish) town (From official references, not ST fan lore), so Blacklight should be capital from the start of TES4 ST.

How does that prevent the design of a quest in which the player can choose to:
- fight to 'save' Kraggenmoore from the infiltrating Hlaalu and keep it the proud Redoran Capital despite the odds;
- or fight to force a bit of commonsense on the stiffnecked Redoran, and get them out of a town where they no longer have a place?

It is true that this kind of Quest might be achieved in TES3, if bob ####s so desires, but I suspect that he has other plans for TES3 and if that happens in TES3 then it forces changes in TES4 assuming that there is to be any correspondence and co-operation between the two? So better that it is offered in TES4.

Is there somethying wrong with offering the player such a major and different Quest that doesn't actually conflict with Lore? I mean if you guys really do not want to create such a Quest then what do you care anyway? In that case better that the Capital remains beleagered in Kraggenmore because no one can be assed to put serious time into the whole thing to do it properly and our dreams of a Redoran Capital remain unsoiled.

[KuKulzA]

actually I think I;ve unearthed a lot of info regarding the problem...

on the concept map of Morrowind which was released a long time after the game...
the city of Kragenmoore was Hlaalu
however somehow TR was led to believe it was Redoran... understandable
Kragenmoore has a private Temple school, meaning a strong presence of the Temple, yet recently growing Akatosh worship... but also during the Imperial invasion all along the western border was the presence of Redoran mercenaries which kept the border strong for awhile...
so I think both have influenced the area... but its probably stronger in Hlaalu favor. The Hlaalu WERE Temple-worshippers before the Imperial invasion... they were devoted, but then again they were mostly small time merchants, traders, and farmers.... but with the defeat they quickly rose to power and made themselves ethically... flexible...
the western Deshaan clans are somewhere in between Hlaalu, Indoril, and Redoran... in the southern area, more between Redoran and Hlaalu... but since it was Hlaalu in the concept map...
i think our best bet is to make it Hlaalu

so ever since there has been dispute over that

and of course though TES3 Blacklight was well made... it didn't seem like no Redoran capitol... so people's all confused...

[TheImperialDragon]

Originally posted by KuKulzA
actually I think I;ve unearthed a lot of info regarding the problem...

on the concept map of Morrowind which was released a long time after the game...
the city of Kragenmoore was Hlaalu
however somehow TR was led to believe it was Redoran... understandable
Kragenmoore has a private Temple school, meaning a strong presence of the Temple, yet recently growing Akatosh worship... but also during the Imperial invasion all along the western border was the presence of Redoran mercenaries which kept the border strong for awhile...
so I think both have influenced the area... but its probably stronger in Hlaalu favor. The Hlaalu WERE Temple-worshippers before the Imperial invasion... they were devoted, but then again they were mostly small time merchants, traders, and farmers.... but with the defeat they quickly rose to power and made themselves ethically... flexible...
the western Deshaan clans are somewhere in between Hlaalu, Indoril, and Redoran... in the southern area, more between Redoran and Hlaalu... but since it was Hlaalu in the concept map...
I think our best bet is to make it Hlaalu

so ever since there has been dispute over that

and of course though TES3 Blacklight was well made... it didn't seem like no Redoran capitol... so people's all confused...

Guess what... -wheeze-, I just got -wheeze- TES3 GOTY for the PC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm so happy, but I had to shovel the double driveway of snow. With good ol' fashioned shovel, and good old fashioned relatively mild Canadian weather at around -10 C. Relative to past years, that is.

Going to raise the level of my PC version character then download and play. What level do you suggest?

[bob196045]

Horay TID got TES3

now get busy modding

I need this and that and this and this :lmao:

Conrgats

****

KK this is good info


Enjoy
Bob